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Old 12th Nov 2018, 10:35 pm   #1
simpsons
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Default Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

I am looking forward to soon having a Ferguson 3V00 series video recorder complete with 405 line recordings for entertainment and to demonstrate old school TV shows.

Should the recordings be of general interest, I will need to both back them up and possibly duplicate them for BVWS Members to use.

I have a Toshiba combined HDD/DVD recorder and thinking aloud wonder, if this machine can be used to store the VHS video contents and then to use it to provide a source for tape duplication.

Any experience or ideas please.

Chris

Last edited by simpsons; 12th Nov 2018 at 10:36 pm. Reason: missing comma
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 10:50 pm   #2
Restoration73
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

Unfortunately the DVD/HDD will only record from a standard b&w/PAL signal typically
576i (some machines can also do NTSC 480i) so unless you have a 405-625 standards
converter the only copies can be made on VHS or similar or an open reel VTR.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 10:27 am   #3
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

I didn't think those recorders had a facility for 405 lines. The original JVC ones that were sold where I worked didn't.
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Old 13th Nov 2018, 10:36 am   #4
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

Earlier VHS recorders didn't have a specific facility for 405 lines, but didn't do anything that was specific to 625 lines either, as a screenful of picture was recorded as a stream of data and it didn't matter to it how that stream was split into lines. The problems started to arise when recorders started to try being more clever with processing specific to 625 lines.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 10:54 pm   #5
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

405 recordings on vhs will only playback on a 405 tv with flashes on the picture as the drop out delaylines are for 625,finding a television to play will be dificult without 405 modulator a philips 210 dual standard tv may do it but not sure?a systems converter is the only sure way.it will be on the tape ok as 405 and 625 both were 50hz frame best of luck from G4ZKB
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 3:11 pm   #6
Andy Green
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

As many know the Sony 9-90UB can be made to receive UHF on 405 by pressing both standards buttons at the same time
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 3:50 pm   #7
dave walsh
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

I didn't think Chris wanted to play back the recordings on a 405 line set Sandpit just to get them onto DVD's or a HD On the other hand, in the absence of a direct conversion route but the presence of a suitable 405 line Monitor, would a home built Tele-Cine rig [ie recording the screen image using a Video Camera] work or does that add further impediments.

I didn't know about the Sony 9-90UB Andy mentions. Is that the perfect solution? There seem to be 9-90 threads, especially re the NZ VHF Broadcasting System!

Dave W
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 6:27 pm   #8
simpsons
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

Maybe my request was unusual. I can play back the 405 line video tape quite easily either using a CH1 modulator through a Bush A640 from the VHS recorder Scart or better still, straight from the video recorder at UHF using the CCIR 625 IF response but with the Bush A640 timebase at 405 lines.

Now, notwithstanding I would rather have the original DVD's of BBC comes to London, BBC comes to the Midalds, BBC First cross channel engineering to relay the Corination and the similar one for the David Dimbleby link up, I can only copy some from YouTube which are not all good quality.

Even should I stick with what I have got, my VHS tape is valuable to me and I would like to have a "master copy" on DVD.

All help appreciated.

Chris
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 9:58 pm   #9
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

Have you attempted to feed the 405 or 625 line outputs [that play on the A640 TV] into your Toshiba DVD/HD Chris?

Dave W
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 11:44 pm   #10
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

I think I may have misunderstood you Chris and that the VHS Player you mention is the one that you are expecting I thought you had another one in place already so this might be a matter of speculation.

Dave
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 12:58 am   #11
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

Hi Dave

RE DVD recording 405 line video

I have not yet tried to do this but I shall and see what happens. My hesitation was caused by waiting for the original source of the 405 VHS recordings which are edited professionally but are VHS quality.

My intention is to have 2 X Murphy A460 chassis at Mikes Murphy day with a broadcast monitor showing the films. First to show how good the chassis black level is and how good 405 can look given it was first used in 1936.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 2:42 am   #12
dave walsh
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

That sounds great. I am just around the corner from where J L Baird died in 1946 Chris. I hope it all works out for you. There is always the lower quality [Tele-Cine] option available but that could surprise you under the right conditions. Hopefully, a more direct solution will emerge. I have very little expertise myself but the experts will advise

Dave
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 4:07 am   #13
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

VHS can record 405-line video signals, because it is basically treating a field as the smallest unit -- it doesn't care what happens within each field, it just records the lines and sync pulses and reproduces them faithfully. And both 405 and 625 line systems used 50 fields per second. All VHS cares about is for the field to begin at the moment when the recording head has just begun its traverse across the width of the tape, so one field is recorded across the tape in exactly one half-turn of the drum.

DVD does care about the line standard, because it records each line separately and generates the sync pulses between one line and the next, and between one field and the next, at the time of playback. The field is compressed as a whole, taking into account the differences between each field and the previous one if it is not the first, and then recorded to disc. It probably won't know about 405-line pictures, and will make a mess of trying to record them as the timing of the sync pulses will be wrong.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 9:06 am   #14
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

For back-up you could record the 405 output on a second VHS machine.

Peter
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 9:31 am   #15
AidanLunn
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

Archive TV group Kaleidoscope are developing some kind of software-based electronic 405 to 625 converter with the first use being to rescue some 405-line recordings from a uge batch of CV2000 tapes or a similar format.

As it's still in development, maybe you could approach them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELn-duyCrNk
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 10:12 am   #16
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

Aiden, thank you so much for the information. I shall look into seeing if the services of TVBrain are feasible.

Chris
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Old 15th Feb 2019, 11:12 am   #17
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Default Re: Dubbing 405 line VHS Tapes

Chris Perry of TV Brain returned my RFQ converting a VHS 1 hr recording onto DVD with the estimate of 25.

I have responded with further details he has asked for and will advise.

Chris
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