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Old 18th Aug 2019, 1:15 pm   #1
Vectamart
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Default Vintage Philips model numbers

I have often been curious as to the way Philips assigned their model numbers. In some cases, they are fairly obvious - e.g. 17TG100U immediately suggests a 17" screen and a 21TG100U suggests a 21" screen. However, what do the letters signify, particularly the 'U' suffix?

Later sets have the characters in a different order, e.g. G19T210 which has no 'U' suffix but the screen size included. In early colour sets, the 'T' seemed to be replaced with a 'K' and by the time the G11 chassis was introduced, the 'K' became a 'C'.

Any information would be of great interest to me and possibly other subscribers.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 3:10 pm   #2
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

I always read it as G Great Britain design. 19 Screen size. 210 chassis series. I think the U originally stood for 'universal' ie AC/DC designed chassis but with changing circuits/power supplies/AC mains supplies only etc I would think the U was dropped. Pure guesswork that may have a hint of truth. John.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 4:28 pm   #3
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

I’m sure that is correct. In addition, the A suffix (rather than U) meant “AC mains only”.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 5:47 pm   #4
toshiba tony
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Didn't K denote continental i.e. K70, K80, K12 and didn't the KT3 start life abroad? I could never work out the model numbering on their VHS videos.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 6:13 pm   #5
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Likely to be kleur.

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/th...d-kleuren.html

DFWB.

Last edited by FERNSEH; 18th Aug 2019 at 6:29 pm.
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Old 18th Aug 2019, 6:35 pm   #6
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiba tony View Post
Didn't K denote continental i.e. K70, K80, K12 and didn't the KT3 start life abroad? I could never work out the model numbering on their VHS videos.
K = kleur = colour (b/w sets got a T for TV, so possibly the K was for kleurentelevisie = colour TV)
C = colour (b/w sets got a B for B/W)

Television set model numbers throughout the years, mostly followed the coding system used for audio but from the mid sixties on when country letters in the model number were dropped in favour of coding centre numbers (G became 15, X became 22, etc), that system didn't allow for a human readable rendition of the picture tube diagonal anymore so from that point the system went on to lead its own life (except for Australia, where it actually did follow the model number coding used in audio and every TV set had a model number starting with 02 for Australia!).

Philips VHS videos didn't have a really complicated number system, but it evolved a bit over the years and some markets used different systems. I'll only describe the common European system.

VR + 4 digits, used from 1984 to 1989. First digit = 6, second digit = luxury class, third digit = model year (except the early models from 1984-1985 where it was always 6), last digit = assigned sequentially starting at 0

VR + 3 digits, used from 1990 to roughly end of production (Funai production from 2002, no new models after 2005). First digit = luxury class, second digit= model year (except some models between 1999-2002), last digit = assigned squentially starting at 0

Last edited by Maarten; 18th Aug 2019 at 6:51 pm.
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Old 19th Aug 2019, 12:07 am   #7
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

If the 1970s is old enough attached is the Philips 1977 sheet for identifying the 1970s models and how the the coding works.
Also for those looking for the more modern stuff there are 2 links below
These links explains the coding for the recent digital flat screen sets
https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs-...ries-explained
and here https://philips-tvconsumercare.kxond...n/Faq/All/1908
As you can see from the attachment and links there is a consistent pattern which seems to have started in the early 60s.
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Attached Files
File Type: pdf Philips TV Codings 1970s.pdf (33.6 KB, 90 views)
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Old 19th Aug 2019, 11:20 am   #8
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

That sheet is probably from 1987, not 1977 but helpful none the less.
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Old 19th Aug 2019, 12:52 pm   #9
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Thanks Maarten
It covers models from 1977 to 87
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 2:58 pm   #10
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

I have a 1981 20CT3322/61Z. Does anybody know what the 61Z suffix means?
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 9:17 pm   #11
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriswood1900 View Post
If the 1970s is old enough attached is the Philips 1977 sheet for identifying the 1970s models and how the the coding works.
Also for those looking for the more modern stuff there are 2 links below
These links explains the coding for the recent digital flat screen sets
https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs-...ries-explained
and here https://philips-tvconsumercare.kxond...n/Faq/All/1908
As you can see from the attachment and links there is a consistent pattern which seems to have started in the early 60s.
Chris
The PDF file is particularly helpful - many thanks. A number of manufacturers seem to have used the 'U' suffix in their model numbers so presumably, it denoted 'universal' with other makes. The assignment of the letters makes sense although I am curious as to why the sequence of characters was rearranged, eg. 17TG100U and G19T210.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 9:29 pm   #12
chriswood1900
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Re post #10 61 should be the destination country code Greece? and z is a walnut finish.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 9:55 pm   #13
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_fivos_sak View Post
I have a 1981 20CT3322/61Z. Does anybody know what the 61Z suffix means?
Very likely destination market Greece. I noted it as such when you presented your set, coincidentally also made in Greece.

As a general caution, the suffix system for brown goods was revised around 1980, so the meaning of almost all suffixes was changed (this /61 is according to the post 1980 system, it might have pointed to some South American country before 1980). Philips brown goods nowadays still use the post 1980 system, while Philips healthe care and small domestic appliances and Whirlpool white goods still use their respective spin offs of the pre 1980 system to this day (some of the suffixes still used on domestic stuff such as 29 for France, are now roughly 90 years old!).

Last edited by Maarten; 20th Aug 2019 at 10:08 pm.
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Old 20th Aug 2019, 10:04 pm   #14
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vectamart View Post
The PDF file is particularly helpful - many thanks. A number of manufacturers seem to have used the 'U' suffix in their model numbers so presumably, it denoted 'universal' with other makes. The assignment of the letters makes sense although I am curious as to why the sequence of characters was rearranged, eg. 17TG100U and G19T210.
Even while TV sets didn't always encode the model year in the type number, when it was done, a single digit was used. Post WWII radio sets always encoded a single digit model year. Therefore the changeover between type number formats was usually done every 10 years so there would be no overlapping numbering between two sets marketed 10 years apart.

It also differed a bit per country. In the Netherlands, the pre-war coding was abandoned for the 1946 model year so the system (for radio; TV followed suit loosely, give or take some years) was changed in 1956, 1966 and 1976 with a final departure from this pattern for most categories around 1980. After that, the changing of systems became a bit more frequent and erratic.
1946 radio: BX.6.A (TV: TX...)
1956 radio: B.X6.A (TV: ..TX... and ..KX...)
1966 radio: 22RB.6. (TV: X..T... and X..K...)
1976 radio: 22AB.6. (TV: ..B... and ..C... actually introduced around 1974, with the first digit after the letter seemingly representing the model year)

Some people say the first letters from the system introduced in 1966 were meant to spell RADIO over the course of the decades, but that could be an urban legend. Even though in car radios where the system was kept more or less intact after 1980, it apparently went on to spell RADR).

Last edited by Maarten; 20th Aug 2019 at 10:22 pm.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 8:02 am   #15
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

I understood that the last suffix indicated that a different crt add been used.
ie 21pt xxx/05 or some mod had been done . I once ordered a loptx for /45 version of a set , (most uk set were /05) The tx that came was /05 but not
seeing the part No I fitted it , Never seen crt heater that bright before like 100wat bulb. Just saved crt by switching OFF quick
Derrick
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 1:32 pm   #16
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

It could correlate with another CRT being used or a major modification, but it wasn't meant to indicate that specifically.

/05 is the first suffix for the UK in the post 1980 system, /45 the second (or possibly third?). When more than 1 suffix is used in the same market, it could indicate the use of another brand name, changes in logistics (other content of the box, sales channel with specific requests), other changes that necessitate the use of a different commercial number to differentiate things that don't affect the customer but do affect Philips themselves.

In your case the set might have had another chassis type along with another CRT, or it could have come from a different factory using the same chassis but some other parts such as the CRT and maybe some mechanical parts locally sourced and adaptations made to accomodate the design for that. It could also be a model that outlived its planned production period and adaptations had to be made to keep production running efficiently.

That said, somewhat smaller design changes were usually only indicated in the revision digits of the serial number. They didn't change commercial type numbers lightly because that would affect the entire logistics process.

Last edited by Maarten; 21st Aug 2019 at 1:54 pm.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 10:41 pm   #17
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Certainly /05 was still used when my DVD recorder was made in 2007.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 11:35 pm   #18
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

It is still used now, and I doubt it will ever be revised again.

I fully understand why the system was revised in 1980, though. Lots of irrelevant codes so either change half of it over time the same way it already evolved during the previous 50 years or change everything to a more logical order at the time and be good for another 50 years or how long the company lasts.
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 1:10 pm   #19
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Did they introduce a (new/central?) computerised system around this time & had to made the codes more "logical" to work with the system?
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 6:36 pm   #20
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Default Re: Vintage Philips model numbers

Oh dear, now I'll have to introduce yet another part of the Philips coding systems :O

Besides commercial type numbers, Philips also used code numbers (mainly for internal usage and spare parts). That system was gradually evolved during the 1920's with its final form in the 1930's and over the years grew into something too unclear to efficiently maintain by hand and not really suited for a computerised system. In 1963 a new coding system was introduced (12 digit numeral code or 12NC) that reflected both the business organisation matrix and had plenty of room for translating old code numbers, issuing new code numbers, and most relevant in this case: for having an internal commercial code number for each and every type number that was issued from then on (and for old type numbers that weren't to be phased out yet). This system was so well thought out that even through various organisation matrix changes (the matrix was mostly hammered flat in various reorganisation attempts) it is still used to this day (though it was sometimes mangled badly by spun off companies).

Since everything that Philips sold from then on, had a commercial code number (nowadays we would call it an SKU) suited for automated processing, I don't think that's the reason for introducing changes around 1980, especially since the changes didn't affect other industry groups within Philips (I think car audio did adopt the new suffixes but not the new model numbers, while both large and small domestic appliances didn't change anything).

I would have to look into it some more, but some possible reasons for the changes could have been human readability, running out of logical numbers for the suffixes, marketing and organisational changes.

An interesting detail on the commercial code numbers, is that they were often reasonably human readable. i.e. they usually contained the digits from the type number somewhere within. This was abandoned around 1995; from then on it was just an index number, increased by one for each new type of set.

Another interesting detail, is that this commercial coding system was the single reason that during the 1980's up to around 1995, TV sets with different picture tube diagonals, had different type numbers. The diagonal, while mentioned in the type number, simply wasn't encoded in the commercial code number so another part of the type number had to be different as well.

Also, the introduction of commercial code numbers was the main reason for the change from using country letters to using 2 digit numbers in the 1966 type number system. The 2 digit numbers may often be thought of as corresponding to a country (15=UK, 22=Netherlands, all numbers up to roughly 40) but are actually coding centres (national organisations and commercial departments equipped to issue code numbers) and correspond to the 3rd and 4th digit of the commercial code number. The only currently active coding centre for consumer electronics is 70, which is the centralised commercial department, the only one remaining after national organisations stopped issuing new models themselves. This explains some (audio) type numbers starting with 70 in the 1980's and 1990's.

P.S. The terms 'type number', 'model number' and 'commercial type number' are used interchangably, the term 'code number' is general while the term 'commercial code number' is used for a code number that corresponds with a type number.

Last edited by Maarten; 22nd Aug 2019 at 6:53 pm.
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