dual sound reel to reel - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

EF80TVVALVE · 25th Jul 2011, 12:20 pm

Hi, I have just brought a 'Dual Sound' reel to reel player that uses a BSR deck. The amp is a fairly simple 2 valve deck. There is a problem with a valve what I think is incorrect. The valve line up is ECC83 and an ECL80. All around the ECL80 base looks burned and I believe that it is an incorrect valve. Does anyone have one of these machines and could possibly tell me the valve line up? Also the caps also get very hot and the ECL80 gets burning hot there is also a loss of sound during operation
Thanks

Tractorfan · 25th Jul 2011, 1:47 pm

Hi,
I would say the ECL80 is definitely wrong. I'm not sure, but I think that an ECL82 is much more likely. The ECL80 has a common cathode which could be causing the overheating, apart from having a completely different pin out. The ECL82 has two separate cathodes and is much more common in audio equipment. The ECL80 is primarily a telly valve.
I'm surprised you got ANY sound!
Hope this helps - a bit.

Cheers, Pete

Herald1360 · 26th Jul 2011, 12:24 pm

A poke around the base of the ECL and how it's connected should clear up the 80/82 issue, or at least eliminate one or the other.

brenellic2000 · 27th Jul 2011, 2:02 pm

The 'Dual Sound' was a pretty standard TRE 'Sound' tape deck which used a pretty standard circuit - it'll be in Hellyer's 'Tape Recorder Manual'.

Barry

EF80TVVALVE · 17th May 2012, 7:02 pm

Hi, I don't think that the ECL82 is the right valve for this, does anyone have a line-up for this? It uses a standard BSR deck,
thanks

eric8650 · 17th May 2012, 7:35 pm

Hi there

First I would look take the ECL80 out and check the volage at Pin 3. If its anything high then (200v+) I would say the valve is an ECL86. This being the screen grid (g2) of the pentode. If there is no voltage then check if there is a low value resistor down to chassis. If there is then I would say its an ECL82. This being the cathode of the pentode.

I would say it is more likely to be an ECL86 than anything else.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Dave

Steve_P · 17th May 2012, 8:19 pm

Agreed. They usually were an ECL82 or an 86. Different bases, so check you haven't blown anything! Unlikely though.

Cheers,

Steve P.

julie_m · 17th May 2012, 11:26 pm

There were lots of inexpensive tape recorders made with these BSR decks, and they nearly all have the same line-up of ECC83 preamp, EM84 level indicator and either ECL82 or ECL86 bias / erase oscillator / audio amp. The pin-outs of these two valves are different. Valves are generally pretty hardy things (with exceptions: I'm looking at you, DK91 and friends -- but not in the wrong tone of voice, obviously

), so misconnection is unlikely to have done it any harm.

Most of the pins on this valve will be connected to the record/play switch, which pretty much rewires the entire recorder depending which mode it is in.

However, the pin-outs of the ECL82 and 86 are such that pin 7 on either valve will be hard-wired to somewhere known.

On an ECL82, pin 7 is the second grid of the pentode section and this will be connected to HT via a high-value resistor (several hundred kΩ). On an ECL86, pin 7 is the cathode of the pentode section and will be connected to chassis via a low-value resistor (a few hundred ohms) probably with an electrolytic capacitor across it.

So, locate pin 7 on the valveholder (valves are numbered in the same manner as ICs: as you look down on the holder with the gap in the "north", 1 is immediately to the "west" of this and numbers increase anticlockwise till you arrive due "east" of the gap), trace the wiring and it should be obvious which valve belongs in this position. Post pics if you have difficulty.

DIN Plug Pete · 21st May 2012, 7:01 am

Hellyer's Tape Recorder Servicing Manual says "as Sound model A41 Riviera", which uses ECC83, ECL86 and EM84 valves.
Peter.

25th Jul 2011, 12:20 pm	#1
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	dual sound reel to reel Hi, I have just brought a 'Dual Sound' reel to reel player that uses a BSR deck. The amp is a fairly simple 2 valve deck. There is a problem with a valve what I think is incorrect. The valve line up is ECC83 and an ECL80. All around the ECL80 base looks burned and I believe that it is an incorrect valve. Does anyone have one of these machines and could possibly tell me the valve line up? Also the caps also get very hot and the ECL80 gets burning hot there is also a loss of sound during operation Thanks

25th Jul 2011, 1:47 pm	#2
Tractorfan Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.) Posts: 3,184	Re: dual sound reel to reel Hi, I would say the ECL80 is definitely wrong. I'm not sure, but I think that an ECL82 is much more likely. The ECL80 has a common cathode which could be causing the overheating, apart from having a completely different pin out. The ECL82 has two separate cathodes and is much more common in audio equipment. The ECL80 is primarily a telly valve. I'm surprised you got ANY sound! Hope this helps - a bit. Cheers, Pete __________________ "Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."

26th Jul 2011, 12:24 pm	#3
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,536	Re: dual sound reel to reel A poke around the base of the ECL and how it's connected should clear up the 80/82 issue, or at least eliminate one or the other. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

27th Jul 2011, 2:02 pm	#4
brenellic2000 Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK. Posts: 1,647	Re: dual sound reel to reel The 'Dual Sound' was a pretty standard TRE 'Sound' tape deck which used a pretty standard circuit - it'll be in Hellyer's 'Tape Recorder Manual'. Barry

17th May 2012, 7:02 pm	#5
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: dual sound reel to reel Hi, I don't think that the ECL82 is the right valve for this, does anyone have a line-up for this? It uses a standard BSR deck, thanks

17th May 2012, 7:35 pm	#6
eric8650 Pentode Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Skegness, Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 103	Re: dual sound reel to reel Hi there First I would look take the ECL80 out and check the volage at Pin 3. If its anything high then (200v+) I would say the valve is an ECL86. This being the screen grid (g2) of the pentode. If there is no voltage then check if there is a low value resistor down to chassis. If there is then I would say its an ECL82. This being the cathode of the pentode. I would say it is more likely to be an ECL86 than anything else. Hope this helps. Regards Dave

17th May 2012, 8:19 pm	#7
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: dual sound reel to reel Agreed. They usually were an ECL82 or an 86. Different bases, so check you haven't blown anything! Unlikely though. Cheers, Steve P. __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

17th May 2012, 11:26 pm	#8
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: dual sound reel to reel There were lots of inexpensive tape recorders made with these BSR decks, and they nearly all have the same line-up of ECC83 preamp, EM84 level indicator and either ECL82 or ECL86 bias / erase oscillator / audio amp. The pin-outs of these two valves are different. Valves are generally pretty hardy things (with exceptions: I'm looking at you, DK91 and friends -- but not in the wrong tone of voice, obviously ), so misconnection is unlikely to have done it any harm. Most of the pins on this valve will be connected to the record/play switch, which pretty much rewires the entire recorder depending which mode it is in. However, the pin-outs of the ECL82 and 86 are such that pin 7 on either valve will be hard-wired to somewhere known. On an ECL82, pin 7 is the second grid of the pentode section and this will be connected to HT via a high-value resistor (several hundred kΩ). On an ECL86, pin 7 is the cathode of the pentode section and will be connected to chassis via a low-value resistor (a few hundred ohms) probably with an electrolytic capacitor across it. So, locate pin 7 on the valveholder (valves are numbered in the same manner as ICs: as you look down on the holder with the gap in the "north", 1 is immediately to the "west" of this and numbers increase anticlockwise till you arrive due "east" of the gap), trace the wiring and it should be obvious which valve belongs in this position. Post pics if you have difficulty. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

21st May 2012, 7:01 am	#9
DIN Plug Pete Tetrode Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abingdon, Oxfordshire, UK. Posts: 66	Re: dual sound reel to reel Hellyer's Tape Recorder Servicing Manual says "as Sound model A41 Riviera", which uses ECC83, ECL86 and EM84 valves. Peter.