Setting up external antenna for AM and FM reception?

[simpsons]

Good Morning Vaasa

A picture says a thousand words and to be honest the one of your house in some ways is more interesting than the Televes tap off and distributor.

Looks a lovely home and to think that you built it yourselves, I applaud you.

Now, back to the Televes, G6Tanuki is I'm afraid quite right about what it will do but, we now know that you can get access to the cabling AND that it is terminated in F connectors. The F connector being the professional connector and when we come to looking for a suitable distribution amplifier, one with F connectors must be found. Also, there is power next to the Televes which you will need.

I've been out and about so not able to follow up the cable tv Company details you sent but I wil do so later today.

Chris

[DennisCA]

Thanks, but the contractor (and sub-contractors) did most of the work, we did a lot of the inside though.

I am wondering if it might be difficult to find an amplifier/splitter that handles the frequency ranges in question. I've not had much luck so far.

Maybe one could find separate amplifier and a passive splitter?

[Herald1360]

Well, you've already got the passive splitter!

Though its lower frequency limit suggests it may use RF transformers rather than just resistors which would be fine down to dc.

For just FM radio, a basic band 2 amplifier with 12+ dB gain to compensate for the splitter loss would do.

[DennisCA]

So far this is the only splitter I have found that works down to 500khz:
https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-mbs-4

I assume this could be connected to a separate amplifier. DX seems to have some, but the ones I've looked at don't go into the FM range, also quite expensive.

On amazon I found something with a 0.1 - 2000 mhz range though for a fraction of the cost, though it lacks a box, but getting an electronics box is easy, question though is, is it any good?

https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-0-1-2.../dp/B01N2NJSGV

[DennisCA]

The amazon one looks a bit sketchy, this one looks more sound. Be nice to find something close to home.

https://www.minikits.com.au/electron...and/GALI-39-R2

[Herald1360]

The mini Minikits unit says not suitable for wide and antenna preamp by reason of limited 3rd order intermediation performance- a few strong signals will overload the amp and produce spurious outputs from mixtures of the signals and their harmonics.

[DennisCA]

Maybe I'll try the amazon one then.

[simpsons]

Hi Dennis,

Before we begin any suggestions to strip out the cable TV tap to your home and replace the Traves with something else, something crossed my mind.

Just how does your internet service provider deliver the service to you? Is the connection (to your modem or WiFi) via the wall socket?

If so, who is your service provider? What are they charging.

Chris

[DennisCA]

You can see my connection in one of the photos earlier, it's the other box with black & yellow wires, it's a fiber optic connection. JNT.fi is the internet company.

I don't really have any interest in keeping the cable TV connection since I don't watch TV and it's completely unused, it's sort of my goal to have my own mast so I can set up my own antennas and not be reliant on some 3rd party.

It matters to me the method in which I achieve this, that is with my own masts and antennas. If I only wanted results I would just listen to radio via the internet, but where is the fun in that? I'm learning a lot already before ever doing anything.

Who knows maybe I'll end up doing my own amplifier before it's all over. Could be a fun project. Who knows where it will lead? All part of the fun of doing and building things.

[simpsons]

Hi Dennis

Thank goodness that your internet and cable TV inlets are different.

Over here, they are bundled together which is why I asked the question.

I wonder if it isn't time to lash up a simple vertical FM aerial feeding into only the room where your Philips receiver is.

I see that Multitronic Vaasa supply FM antenna & antenna cables including satellite F connector ones. They also offer free returns!

What I propose is you buy the HAMA FM Antenni Koaksiaali €8.90. This has a TV male coaxial plug terminating the "ribbon" cable but which is only 1.5M long. For the lash up you will need some more 300 ohm ribbon feeder to extend the 1.5M to the receiver. If not available locally, eBay have it.

Do you still have the "Philips" FM aerial 2 pin plug? Used also by B&O and Tandberg, they are known as Philips 702 or DIN 45316 plugs. If not, you will need to either try and buy one or use bare wires into the socket.

In the long term, you will need a balun or matching transformer, to plug into the Philips radio, satellite cable and so on. But for now keep it simple.

Using a wooden pole, make a vertical dipole, there are pin holes on the antenna to do this, mount the antenna as high as possible but away from the steel roof, and, extending the twin cable as necessary, plug it in.

If it provides noise free stereo reception on the stations you enjoy, then you can look forward to making a more permanent system. If not, well, we'll come to that.

For AM, again, a long wire lash up would be my first choice but mixing the feed to be available at the wall plate I'm afraid will not be possible. The issue may well be in maintaining the integrity of your building whilst getting the feed to the receiver.

Let me know what you think.

Chris

[simpsons]

Hi Dennis

My apology for thinking that your internet connection was via the Cable TV Company cable and not fibre. You must have thought I was challenging your intelligence, but that is how it is done in most of the UK.

There are pockets in the UK where Fibre to Home known as FTTH is available and with the rollout of SKY TV without a dish, 4K Television and the like it may become the norm but we will have to wait until 2026 for more homes to be connected.


Chris

[simpsons]

My statement re AM radio not being available at the wall plate is also based on UK standard fare. Here the wall plate is fed by a single coax carrying VHF and UHF signals. On the wall plate, there is a frequency dependant splitter that separates the signals.

Now, there is a way around this using 2 off AM-FM + UHF Combiners. One at the aerial end followed by one in the room. Amazon sell them in the USA @ $60 each.

I'm counting 6 cables from the Televes. Should FM radio be one and the other UHF for TV then fed to the wall socket only you will know. Take off the wall plate and look would be my suggestion.

If the wall plate is fed by a single coax, then buying the AM-FM combiner may well be within your budget or available to order locally at less cost.

Chris

[DennisCA]

Funny thing is I have that antenna already in my office and connected to my receiver, it has both a coax antenna FM plug and an 300 ohm FM plug. Inside I can get one channel well enough to get stereo without noticeable hiss. I suppose I can try a temporary outside mast and see if it improves reception.

Edit, photo of my receiver antenna outlets
https://i.**********/B05bnz6.png

[DennisCA]

On the phone right now but I think you are correct that there's one cable per room. But I was thinking about this AM / FM band splitter I saw on the DX engineering site and connecting it to the radio outlet.

At any rate if it looks like it's gonna be too complicated or expensive then perhaps it's best to lead in the AM separately, like through the window. And I will just keep the coax for FM.

Have to see later, gone visiting relatives today, am quite far away out in the country on a farm ATM.

[simpsons]

Hello Dennis

As you can see whilst you've been away in the country, under a different post, BVWS Members have added their experience/knowledge to your need for good FM reception.

Let me explain. When you posted the picture of your receiver, it showed that the indoor aerial you had purchased had a coaxial plug fitted to it. In a strong signal area, it will work but only in a fashion.

A simple dipole made from wire or aluminium rods will need either 300 ohm twin feeder to the receiver, which is the name given to the wire you see on the indoor aerial you have, or, if a coaxial cable is used, a 330 ohm to 75 ohm (coax) matching transformer. Should you use a 75 ohm coaxial cable straight from the aerial or plug the 300 ohm twin feeder into the coax socket on your Phillips receiver, you will lose almost half the signal.

With a FM aerial designed for a 75 ohm coaxial cable to be used, then a simple aerial will have a folded dipole or extra rods which make it suitable for 75 ohm coax. You can see this in adverts for FM aerials.

Now, back to your needs. There are 2 ways you can move on.

The first would be to buy more twin feeder and cutting off the coax plug, try out you internal aerial away from the house with the aerial bit vertical along a wooden pole. The twin feeder would be plugged into the 300 ohm socket on your Phillips receiver. The matchsticks expression just means using them to push and hold the wires into the socket. Finding a proper plug today will be difficult and for this lash up not necessary.

The second way is to buy a 3 element FM aerial knowing that even if pointed towards you favourite station, the design of a 3 element aerial means that it will still pick up stations 15 degrees either side of where it is pointed. Put it another way, 2 FM transmitters 30 degrees apart will be received with equal strength. Only you can check this practicality by using a map.

A coax cable run first to the receiver direct to prove the concept and then depending upon the need to distribute the signal through the house, via pre amp through the Televes distribution box. More of this later.

I'm sorry to go into so much detail but it is important to understand the logic of my thoughts.

Chris

[DennisCA]

The antenna I purchased came with the coaxial plug and also specified 75 ohms, I did not fit the coax plug myself.

I am thinking of skipping the televes splitter for now and only relay the signal to the office in which I keep the receiver. To greatly simplify everything to start with.

Based on my maps the main stations around me are almost 90 degrees from each other. I am thinking to buy an omnidirectional FM antenna and put it high up, then if it does not perform adequately I can get a directional one. The omnidirectional ones are very cheap, 20 euros or so. So I think I can risk it.

[simpsons]

Hi Dennis

The omnidirectional aerials which are a circle and horizontally polarized are a poor choice. They only pick up a fraction of the signal at the portion of the curve toward to transmitter.

There are omnidirectional vertical FM aerials on the market. I need to come back to you on this to find an EU supplier.

To retain the integrity of your home insulation, at the Televes box, you can disconnect the coax to receiver feed and, using an F connector coupler, connect the FM aerial to it.

Chris

[DennisCA]

Well, I just found that the strong 60kw station seems to be horizontal actually (both, depends on station), thought it was all vertical, but turns out there where two stations nearby in the seinäjoki area and I mixed them up. The ones closer and to the south are vertically polarized.

https://fmscan.org/transmitter.php?t=2600296

[DennisCA]

Do you mean this type of antenna?
https://www.satshop.fi/u1ez.html

[simpsons]

You're ahead of me Dennis!!

The omnidirectional antenna I was going to recommend would be the Fuba DAT100 which is exactly the same but costs 29 Euros +p&P

Multitronic Vaasa sell satellite cable of different lengths fitted with an F connector at each end to simplify fitting. Just the job.

You will also need a Hama SAT adapteri F Litin to join the F connector cables together.

Later, all being well, I would add a single output Antiference DA220 75 Series distribution amplifier (20 Euros), or similar, inside your home, or a should you need to feed all rooms a 6-way version.

Almost there?

Chris