BBC Shelve FM Switch Off.

[Nuvistor]

I would like to keep the FM transmitters in use, time will tell if they do.

This discussion about the price of receivers, battery economy and reception problems with DAB versus FM does bring back memories. In the 1960’s early 70’s there was exactly the same argument about AM and FM radios, the ones with FM being more expensive to buy, they run the batteries down much quicker than AM ones and they were difficult to get good reception. That was overcome partly with more choice becoming available during the 70’s and more transmitters.
Stereo also became more available but this was not a factor in general for portable radios.

More DAB/DAB+ transmitters are now available, I don’t know if more are to be built, there is lot more choice of stations, that leaves for many just battery life and rechargeable batteries will help.

I don’t think the DAB stations will go, just hope the FM will not follow the path of AM but I am not holding my breath.

[rontech]

I have rarely heard any music on DAB radio which I consider "real HiFi"

In the 1980/1995 period I had a Quad stero FM tuner / Quad Valve amp / Large Tannoy speakers. Some of the classical music on R3, big band music ( Alan Dell ) and light music ( FridayNight is Music Night ) sounded superb. In those days I think the BBC had highly professional and perceptive sound engineers. I imagine that may not be the case today.

[Nuvistor]

Originally Posted by stevehertz

Well nothing is forever, I'm sure DAB will close one day. If you're only going to be satiated by the inclusion of the word 'cancelled', then dream on. This is great news in my opinion!

They have left themselves room to reverse the decision very easily if they wish, that is my problem.

[regentone001]

At least millions of radios will not be rendered basically useless. We are supposed to try to cut down on waste and yet they were planning to make FM radios obsolete seems counter intuitive to me.

[paulsherwin]

Ultimately it will be a political decision. The 'digital economy' mania of 15 years ago has subsided in government, and people are being more pragmatic now. The BBC claim that almost 50% of radio listening is digital now, but that includes non linear stuff like podcasts and Spotify, and the digital audience is massively skewed towards people in their teens and 20s. The Conservatives in particular will find it very difficult to scrap a technology which most of their supporters use.

Of course, both the demographics and the technology will be very different in 50 years' time.

[Hybrid tellies]

I was pleasantly surprised when I heard this news. Perhaps the BBC have seen what has happened in Norway and decided to put off any thoughts of closing their FM network.
As has previously been mentioned it will be interesting to see if they are going to replace the 30+ year old FM transmitters which must be coming to the end of their life or are they able to keep the old Marconi transmitters going for another decade or so as they are doing with their high powered AM Marconi transmitters. I would imagine some spare parts could be a bit of an issue but not impossible.
I seem to remember someone telling me that FM transmitters are longer lived than their AM cousins and providing they are designed well they may well out live the newer DAB transmitters.

[ionburn]

Personally I still listen to AM but occasionally FM. My other half does often listen to digital as with radio on the TV but we don't own a DAB radio and have no thoughts about getting one. Aside from this, in a discussion with art group members a couple of weeks ago, I found there was no real like, and some dislike of digital altogether, one member having a DAB radio hated it.

I can see the internet taking over in time, but the distinction could be very blurred as UHF could be used for one way internet communication (which it is now in some ways anyway), with apps for linking.

[Herald1360]

Originally Posted by ionburn

I can see the internet taking over in time, but the distinction could be very blurred as UHF could be used for one way internet communication (which it is now in some ways anyway), with apps for linking.

My internet connection is definitely via UHF- I have only a 4G dongle!

[G8HQP Dave]

Originally Posted by Nuvistor

This discussion about the price of receivers, battery economy and reception problems with DAB versus FM does bring back memories. In the 1960’s early 70’s there was exactly the same argument about AM and FM radios, the ones with FM being more expensive to buy, they run the batteries down much quicker than AM ones and they were difficult to get good reception. That was overcome partly with more choice becoming available during the 70’s and more transmitters.

DAB vs FM now is quite different from FM vs AM of 60 years ago. FM provided the opportunity for the listener to get better quality sound than AM, if he wished to spend some money, because the transmission was better quality. DAB, as implemented in the UK, ensures that at best the listener can get sound slightly inferior to FM on a few stations and similar to AM on many stations - and there is nothing the user can do to improve things. Hence 'programme choice' is the only driver for DAB and for many of us that brings no advantage because there is nothing new which we wish to listen to.

Some folk like to compare DAB to digital TV, but again this is a poor analogy. Digital radio and digital TV both have the problem of dozens of channels of dross, but at least digital TV now also offers higher technical quality - although at the cost of rapid obsolescence of receiving equipment. It was worth buying a digital TV STB to augment an existing analogue TV, but the radio equivalent only has some worth in a car and no value in the home.

I note that the BBC claims that FM is overcrowded. Only true in the sense that there are lots of 'local' stations carrying identical programming for much of the time. It would be better to stop pretending that these are local and have regional stations instead, for both BBC and ILR.

[paulsherwin]

The idea that the FM band is full simply reflects the London cultural bias of policymakers. FM is crowded in London and a few other locations, but there are dozens of spare frequencies in most parts of the UK. Here in Oxford (hardly the middle of nowhere) there are only 10 frequencies in use.

[russell_w_b]

I note that our local radio station, BBC Radio Cumbria has no appetite for broadcasting on DAB, or didn't, when I spoke to one of the producers a year ago. Our terrain and population distribution means that we are well served on MF as well as VHF FM. Interestingly, it is available on a 'Freeview' radio channel.

[Nuvistor]

Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave

DAB vs FM now is quite different from FM vs AM of 60 years ago. FM provided the opportunity for the listener to get better quality sound than AM, if he wished to spend some money, because the transmission was better quality.

That is true but it was not the reason that FM became popular, the reason for choosing a radio with FM was when the simultaneous programming ended. Up to that time we had a resistance to sales of sets with VHF/FM for the reasons I stated.

We were selling decent equipment for FM for those who wanted it, but most others just wanted a portable radio with no thought of hifi.

I listen to FM/AM and DAB, I use DAB for a station that is not available on FM or AM, I could use the internet but the DAB radio is more convenient. It’s a portable radio not hifi, I don’t have anything remotely hifi.

I have no reception problems with DAB, National stations on FM are good, BBC local radio is much better on DAB.

Time will tell were we get to with broadcasting, it would be good to keep what we have but I saw no guarantee in that speech.

[barrymagrec]

We moved to DAB in order to be able to get all the cricket broadcasts in sync throughout the house. Radio 4extra is a bonus but for serious music it`still R3 on FM (and a odd selection of internet stations).

[vidjoman]

My 1 year old car only has FM/AM radio. My son paid an extra £500 to have DAB as well. Most times the DAB does not work and the radio reverts to FM. He thinks it was a waste of money. There must be huge numbers of cars that only have FM, and even that has not got perfect coverage.

[barrymagrec]

The radio in my previous car had very poor LW reception (No TMS) so I bought a DAB adaptor to feed into an unused channel on the FM. On a journey from London to Dorset there was no reception for over half the journey.
Luckily my current car has a working LW radio so the DAB adaptor is junked.

[Craig Sawyers]

My Ford Kuga too. Force it to DAB (to listen to sport on Radio 5 live) and within five minutes it has defaulted back to the AM version. Or FM if you have chosen say Radio 4.

And I react badly to every advertising campaign the BBC launches, because it is based on choice (which most people do not want - as has been pointed out) and quality (ha ha).

And in marginal areas it does not break up politely like analogue.

No thanks. FM for me for as long as possible.

Craig

[Nickthedentist]

My wife has a 1 year-old Seat, quite a high-spec model with all the extras and trimmings.

The stereo accepts CDs, USB sticks and SD cards and has a large colour touchscreen as well as the usual duplicate controls on the steering wheel. I was surprised (but not disappointed) to find it had no DAB provision.

[Nuvistor]

I travel a 4 hour car journey quite frequently, BBC nationals on FM are good, other National FM stations not so good, the car I have now has DAB+, only used the car for local 20 mile radius journeys and the DAB works well, no drop outs or burble, I have not even tuned in the FM.
I will tune in FM before my next long journey in a few days, it will be interesting to see how the FM/DAB behave.

[Kala_12]

Hi all,
This is my experience of DAB radio. ZERO or thereabout.

There have been one or two references to coverage being poor.
By that I mean that after having purchased not one, but two DAB radios after the "isn't DAB wonderful" brigade went on about how good it was, I have never managed to get a signal on either of them. Lucky they had VHF on them!

My car only has AM and FM and I'm not keen on the idea of having to have a little box to convert the DAB signal to FM so I can listen to the radio when I'm driving. To my mind that defeats the idea of DAB in the first place.

My wife has just reminded me that on her new car, she has got DAB and that we tried it (just so we could see if it worked). It did work, somewhere, but I can't remember where, but the sound was definitely inferior to the VHF.

As has been said, how can they even think of switching off VHF if there is no alternative? DAB is not 100% coverage. I know there are mobile devices that can get internet radio, but I bet I'm not the only person who doesn't have a "smart phone" or whatever it is that you need! Or am I so far behind that I'm missing something?

Stuart.

FM "Switch off" (and the adoption of DAB) would be fine if...

The DAB signal strength was increased to make portable use acceptable.

The codec went to DAB+ so you got slightly worse audio rather than nothing when you got a low signal. (this may mean the scrapping of older sets, not too many I suspect).

All stations used higher bit rates to make it sound OK.

Power consumption of sets reduced a lot so battery operation is practical (this can be done, I have a portable set that uses 1 AA cell, lasts for ages).

Firmware to be open source (with a bit of luck someone may make it better if a company goes bust) and upgradeable via (USB?) on the radio.

I like DAB for the content but it needs a proper aerial to get it (much like FM in the early days), I rebroadcast on FM (using a car DAB adaptor) for my FM sets (and on MW for the others, full bandwidth). This way I have the best of both worlds, content (Radio 4 Extra and the World service for example) and good quality reception on my vintage sets. Having the whole bandwidth of audio on old AM sets makes a considerable improvement.

One last thing, put it on band 1, only a handful of transmitters needed for country wide coverage.

I will now sit down and wait for the barrage...