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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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11th Nov 2022, 5:37 am | #1 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2
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Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
Hi all,
I have a Philips HR 5570 clock that I am trying to restore as it has sentimental value, I think the fault with mine is that the Moving Coil Motor is open circuit. 1 - Does anyone know where I can source the Moving Coil Motor (shown by Blue arrow) or mechanism with a working coil? 2 - Any idea what resistance the coil should measure on a multimeter? See picture attached Attachment 267854 Kind Regards, Vik |
11th Nov 2022, 12:43 pm | #2 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 1,874
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
I had one of these clocks. A design disaster. The leaf spring coupling the moving coil to the seconds ratchet wheel just didn't work properly and could not be made to. I wasted far too much time trying to fix a lousy design.
Keep the clock and hands, bin the Philips quartz movement and fit a generic Chinese one for a very modest outlay. Leon. |
11th Nov 2022, 1:17 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,203
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
Not even keep it but bin it? I don't think that would be the first advice I would give out for a sentimental item... That's the "if all else fails" advice. Then keep the old movement and take care to not modify the clock irreversibly in fitting the generic movement.
Yours might not have been repairable, but would they all have the same defects? In general, coils often break at the connection points so that would be worth a first look. From the looks of it, the coils would measure somewhere in the hundreds of ohms, give or take a zero. |
11th Nov 2022, 7:01 pm | #4 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 1,874
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
Inevitably, if there's a design problem, they're all the same. The interface between the oscillating moving coil and the nylon ratchet wheel has to be seen to be believed. If sentiment extends to the movement, there's probably room to leave it in the bottom of the case. The moving coil was not wound with very fine wire - I would guess a few tens of ohms. It runs on only 1.5 V.
Mine was a brass ship's clock lookalike with a hinged front. Vik's clock looks much the same. Leon. |
12th Nov 2022, 4:23 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 4,609
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
Sorry, Leon, but I'd agree with Maarten in that respect.
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Mike. |
12th Nov 2022, 7:26 pm | #6 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 1,874
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
Have you tried getting a Philips movement of this type to index reliably?
Leon. The green Philips trimmer capacitor is useful in Bush VHFx1 tuner heads - before you bin the rest of the movement.... |
13th Nov 2022, 2:47 pm | #7 |
Diode
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
Thanks for the input Guys,
Yes Leon, mine is indeed also a brass ship's clock lookalike with a hinged front. I may comment though that from my experience as a Consumer Electronics serviceman,(Note: I have updated my profile with my technical background as context to my responses.) that I have seen more than a few instances where a design flaw was found in early production of an item which was rectified in the later production runs of the unit which were released with exactly the same model number as the previously flawed version, so I would not assume that my clock inevitably has the same issues, of course it is possible that it might and I do agree with you Leon that the thin spring-wire actuator does not seem very precise or robust. Since my post I have disassembled a generic quartz crystal movement and wired the coil from that across the open coil of my Philips MC motor, this proved that the Philips coil is indeed open circuit as I received healthy(prior to this it was stuck LOW) 1 second pulses with my Digital Logic probe, and I could visually see the drive gear in the Generic mechanism move in time with the pulses. The coil in the generic mechanism measures around 75 ohms. The connection points of the coil with the PCB and lugs on the coil seem ok, so it is a bit surprising that it would have a break elsewhere in the winding but i guess it must have. I am not really concerned with it keeping exact time so I have thought I may be able to utilise a mini solenoid or coil movement from an analog Panel/VU Meter, if i can find one that has a resistance of about 50-70 ohms. Leon, I did notice a closed post from 2014, https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?p=659303, in which no-one was able to find information on a clock IC, I found a Datasheet for the SAA 1114 used in this clock, should I open a new thread to post that link or post it in this thread? cheers for now, vik |
13th Nov 2022, 8:08 pm | #8 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,203
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
It seems to have worked correctly for some years at least, and the TS didn't even report any mechanical problems such as you found in your clock.
Quote:
You could very well be right that none of those will ever be able to work correctly after some years of wear and tear. However it's better to trust and verify, especially in cases like this where it probably isn't even the problem, and especially given that even design problems can be fixed or worked around sometimes. But to get back to the case at hand. It's probably a bought in movement, so by finding the original manufacturer, chances for finding parts - or even a well fitting replacement - can be increased. Last edited by Maarten; 13th Nov 2022 at 8:16 pm. |
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13th Nov 2022, 8:36 pm | #9 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 1,874
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
I would judge that this is very much a Philips in-house job. All of the electronic components including the nice green trimmer, are Philips. I don't think they had another go at clock movements.....
Leon. |
20th Nov 2022, 8:10 pm | #10 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
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Re: Philips HR 5570 clock - MC Motor
Could be, but it doesn't quite look the part, so maybe just a few components.. Though on the other hand, Philips did stranger things than designing clocks from scratch even though they did have some history of bought in movements or sets.
I would be very interested in the manufacturer and type of the IC, and especially in any numbers or texts in the copper layer of the circuit board. If the PCB isn't easily dismounted, I won't ask the latter from the OP as it increases the chances of introducing new defects. The type number and manufacturer of the IC, could also be a useful reference for finding data on the recommended coil configuration, though. Edit: Rotel sold clocks with the same movement: https://www.etsy.com/nl/listing/9807...isting_details It might have been a cooperation between Philips (if they manufactured the IC) and a movement manufacturer as using a 4.19MHz crystal would have been seen as an important innovation at the time. Last edited by Maarten; 20th Nov 2022 at 8:34 pm. |