Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

mimeoprint · 21st Jul 2015, 1:14 pm

Hello,

I know this is a radio forum, but we were advised to post here to possibly get some hints.

We are artists working with an old style mimeograph. We need two types of stencils, wax (for drawing and typewriting) and electrostencils for our old-fashion electric drum-scanner.

We can find the wax stencils but not the electrostencils.

Does anyone have an idea of where we could buy these electrostencils? Alternatively, does anyone know of a material that we could adapt to the needed use?

The electric scanner scans the original on a rotating drum with a moving optical head and burning through the blank stencil with an electric spark in the places where the optical head detected ink.

We've searched all over the internet without luck.
Many directed us to these two site, but they have discontinued them (forum doesn't let me post url's)
Repeatotype
http://www.repeatotype.com/
Daito Chemical
http://www.daito-chemical.com/english/index.html

Any help with this will be highly appreciated.
Many thanks!

G6Tanuki · 21st Jul 2015, 3:39 pm

I've not come across a stencil-version but a couple of decades ago I made extensive use of an IBM model 4250 "Electro-erosion" printer which used a spark to burn away the silver coating on special paper to reveal the black coating below - the result had *very* good contrast and was then used as camera-ready copy by the local printshop.

Alas we dumped the printer a decade ago - along with the unused media.

The other technology used extensively at one time was a device called a Mufax - for this the 'printer' had a very thin wire that traced the drum and a special chemical paper [called "Teledeltos"] was used - this contained starch, and potassium iodide - when the thin wire was electrified, iodine was released and this dyed the starch purple. Was used for transmitting weather-maps between loads of military bases.

kenneth · 21st Jul 2015, 4:20 pm

The MUFAX mentioned by G6TANUKI was made by a British firm called MUIRHEAD hence MUFAX possibly the trade name for THE MUIRHEAD FACSIMILE equipment - they were the forerunners of modern FAX machines.. In their day they were commonly used by newspapers and press agencies to transmit black and white pictures, often by wireless.

dseymo1 · 21st Jul 2015, 4:40 pm

I wonder if Risograph masters would work if fitted to a suitable header?

mimeoprint · 22nd Jul 2015, 8:13 am

Many thanks for the replies and information.

Dseymo1, we could eventually fit a master to a header. We will look into Risograph masters, then.

Any other suggestions are appreciated.

terry123 · 22nd Jul 2015, 1:51 pm

Hello,
This technology was once widely used in the UK. A few years ago (late 1980s) I used to maintain a Gestetner stencil cutting machine and duplicator for a customer as by then , everyone had moved over to the humble copier , but he was loathed to get one due to the expense at the time. He used it to great effect for weekly sales newsletters , they were cheap and easy to produce on the duplicator and allowed a for a degree of alteration and temporary storage once used.

With the stencil cutting machine you loaded a suitable original on one side of the drum and a standard stencil (of the type in the picture) on the other. You could lighten or darken the resultant image and I am sure I remember this one having a automatic setting for this.The drum would spin a constant speed and the stencil was progressively cut line by line (similar to TV line scanning ) with very good results. You then loaded it onto the duplicator machine which would happily churn out 1000s of copies from the one original. There was even a special correction fluid that could be used on the stencil in the event a typist error was made. I know that you could hand write onto them directly and I think there was a special pen you could buy for the purpose that perforated the stencil.

I remember one issue my client used to get with very dark image areas (say a b/w photo with a lot of contrast) was that the stencil would "stick" to the paper , which in turn wrapped itself around the duplicator drum and could gum up the machine in the process. When they were run at full speed they could easily outperform a modern day office copier with ease!
Indecently , Gestetner recommended that you did not use photocopy paper, but a special type (usually foolscap in size that had better ink absorbency).

The stencil cutter in question had a pair of Siemens EL34 valves to generate the cutting voltage at the cutter tip. fascinating to watch and a unmistakable odour when it was in operation.
I used to obtain spares for these directly from Gestetner in Northampton, such as the cutter tips and stencils. Prior to that they had a sizeable operation in Tottenham London which I vaguely remember passing as a kid in the 1970s. All long gone .

You may be very lucky in finding a traditional stationery shop that may have a box of the stencils kicking about; other then that eBay ... you never know. I did spot an old Roneo on there not that long ago. They were standard issue as far as I know so a Gestetner one would also fit a Roneo. I know that the technology was very popular in Africa , India and countries that had dispersed populations and vast rural areas and no power as Gestetner, Roneo Vickers ( and I am sure others) also supplied hand cranked duplicators . I remember a chap I occasionally dealt with at Gestetners telling me that they were still supporting some of these machines in far away places and even selling new ones long after !
see

http://tottenham-summerhillroad.com/..._tottenham.htm

kind regards
Terry

mimeoprint · 22nd Jul 2015, 3:29 pm

Many thanks for all the information, Terry.
Our scanner is just as you describe except that it has no valves.
If you hear of anyone from faraway countries, please let us know. We have got contacts for Japan and China, but they've all discontinued production.
Kind regards!

McMurdo · 22nd Jul 2015, 9:25 pm

Just as an aside, the Mufax (and other early fax machines dating back to the dawn of the telegraph) was demonstrated on The Secret Life of the Fax Machine (Tim Hunkin's C4 series).

dseymo1 · 22nd Jul 2015, 9:29 pm

I didn't know that they made solid-state (valveless) stencil scanners.
Does your have a photomultiplier tube?

julie_m · 23rd Jul 2015, 2:30 pm

It should be possible to cut typewriter stencils using a dot-matrix printer with the ribbon removed. I believe this method was actually used for some fanzines and other short-run publications in the 1980s.

mimeoprint · 23rd Jul 2015, 2:59 pm

Many thanks Julie.
Yes, we have a dot-matrix which works well with stencils coated with wax (regular stencils for drawing and typewriting). Yet, the image quality for photos is better with the old-style electric scanner. So, we are looking for some kind of available paper/support that we could use instead of the discontinued stencils made for these scanners.

21st Jul 2015, 1:14 pm	#1
mimeoprint Diode Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Paris, France Posts: 4	Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils Hello, I know this is a radio forum, but we were advised to post here to possibly get some hints. We are artists working with an old style mimeograph. We need two types of stencils, wax (for drawing and typewriting) and electrostencils for our old-fashion electric drum-scanner. We can find the wax stencils but not the electrostencils. Does anyone have an idea of where we could buy these electrostencils? Alternatively, does anyone know of a material that we could adapt to the needed use? The electric scanner scans the original on a rotating drum with a moving optical head and burning through the blank stencil with an electric spark in the places where the optical head detected ink. We've searched all over the internet without luck. Many directed us to these two site, but they have discontinued them (forum doesn't let me post url's) Repeatotype http://www.repeatotype.com/ Daito Chemical http://www.daito-chemical.com/english/index.html Any help with this will be highly appreciated. Many thanks! Attached Thumbnails

21st Jul 2015, 3:39 pm	#2
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 14,007	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils I've not come across a stencil-version but a couple of decades ago I made extensive use of an IBM model 4250 "Electro-erosion" printer which used a spark to burn away the silver coating on special paper to reveal the black coating below - the result had very good contrast and was then used as camera-ready copy by the local printshop. Alas we dumped the printer a decade ago - along with the unused media. The other technology used extensively at one time was a device called a Mufax - for this the 'printer' had a very thin wire that traced the drum and a special chemical paper [called "Teledeltos"] was used - this contained starch, and potassium iodide - when the thin wire was electrified, iodine was released and this dyed the starch purple. Was used for transmitting weather-maps between loads of military bases.

21st Jul 2015, 4:20 pm	#3
kenneth Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 173	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils The MUFAX mentioned by G6TANUKI was made by a British firm called MUIRHEAD hence MUFAX possibly the trade name for THE MUIRHEAD FACSIMILE equipment - they were the forerunners of modern FAX machines.. In their day they were commonly used by newspapers and press agencies to transmit black and white pictures, often by wireless.

21st Jul 2015, 4:40 pm	#4
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils I wonder if Risograph masters would work if fitted to a suitable header?

22nd Jul 2015, 8:13 am	#5
mimeoprint Diode Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Paris, France Posts: 4	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils Many thanks for the replies and information. Dseymo1, we could eventually fit a master to a header. We will look into Risograph masters, then. Any other suggestions are appreciated.

22nd Jul 2015, 1:51 pm	#6
terry123 Pentode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rosyth, Fife, UK. Posts: 204	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils Hello, This technology was once widely used in the UK. A few years ago (late 1980s) I used to maintain a Gestetner stencil cutting machine and duplicator for a customer as by then , everyone had moved over to the humble copier , but he was loathed to get one due to the expense at the time. He used it to great effect for weekly sales newsletters , they were cheap and easy to produce on the duplicator and allowed a for a degree of alteration and temporary storage once used. With the stencil cutting machine you loaded a suitable original on one side of the drum and a standard stencil (of the type in the picture) on the other. You could lighten or darken the resultant image and I am sure I remember this one having a automatic setting for this.The drum would spin a constant speed and the stencil was progressively cut line by line (similar to TV line scanning ) with very good results. You then loaded it onto the duplicator machine which would happily churn out 1000s of copies from the one original. There was even a special correction fluid that could be used on the stencil in the event a typist error was made. I know that you could hand write onto them directly and I think there was a special pen you could buy for the purpose that perforated the stencil. I remember one issue my client used to get with very dark image areas (say a b/w photo with a lot of contrast) was that the stencil would "stick" to the paper , which in turn wrapped itself around the duplicator drum and could gum up the machine in the process. When they were run at full speed they could easily outperform a modern day office copier with ease! Indecently , Gestetner recommended that you did not use photocopy paper, but a special type (usually foolscap in size that had better ink absorbency). The stencil cutter in question had a pair of Siemens EL34 valves to generate the cutting voltage at the cutter tip. fascinating to watch and a unmistakable odour when it was in operation. I used to obtain spares for these directly from Gestetner in Northampton, such as the cutter tips and stencils. Prior to that they had a sizeable operation in Tottenham London which I vaguely remember passing as a kid in the 1970s. All long gone . You may be very lucky in finding a traditional stationery shop that may have a box of the stencils kicking about; other then that eBay ... you never know. I did spot an old Roneo on there not that long ago. They were standard issue as far as I know so a Gestetner one would also fit a Roneo. I know that the technology was very popular in Africa , India and countries that had dispersed populations and vast rural areas and no power as Gestetner, Roneo Vickers ( and I am sure others) also supplied hand cranked duplicators . I remember a chap I occasionally dealt with at Gestetners telling me that they were still supporting some of these machines in far away places and even selling new ones long after ! see http://tottenham-summerhillroad.com/..._tottenham.htm kind regards Terry __________________ Terry Martini-Yates BVWS Committee Vice Chair

22nd Jul 2015, 3:29 pm	#7
mimeoprint Diode Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Paris, France Posts: 4	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils Many thanks for all the information, Terry. Our scanner is just as you describe except that it has no valves. If you hear of anyone from faraway countries, please let us know. We have got contacts for Japan and China, but they've all discontinued production. Kind regards!

22nd Jul 2015, 9:25 pm	#8
McMurdo Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK. Posts: 5,273	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils Just as an aside, the Mufax (and other early fax machines dating back to the dawn of the telegraph) was demonstrated on The Secret Life of the Fax Machine (Tim Hunkin's C4 series). __________________ Kevin

22nd Jul 2015, 9:29 pm	#9
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils I didn't know that they made solid-state (valveless) stencil scanners. Does your have a photomultiplier tube?

23rd Jul 2015, 2:30 pm	#10
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils It should be possible to cut typewriter stencils using a dot-matrix printer with the ribbon removed. I believe this method was actually used for some fanzines and other short-run publications in the 1980s. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

23rd Jul 2015, 2:59 pm	#11
mimeoprint Diode Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Paris, France Posts: 4	Re: Mimeograph Electric Scanner (Fax) Stencils Many thanks Julie. Yes, we have a dot-matrix which works well with stencils coated with wax (regular stencils for drawing and typewriting). Yet, the image quality for photos is better with the old-style electric scanner. So, we are looking for some kind of available paper/support that we could use instead of the discontinued stencils made for these scanners.