UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players

Notices

Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 1st Aug 2014, 10:56 am   #161
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

anyone knows what the little stickers on the heads of these recorder means?

i've seen three of them, with WReu, WRlp and KHcz written on them... what's strange is that both WR marked heads are fitted on "made in holland" machines
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 12:33 pm   #162
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,184
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

That's not too strange, for example "Made in Austria" machines were most likely fitted with Dutch motors. Economically, it didn't always make sense to have multiple factories for one part. Sometimes it did make sense, in that case development was often still concentrated at one of the factories.

WR is indeed Vienna. The letters behind it may be a batch or date code just as they seem to be on pick up elements.

Other known factory markings that can be found on parts:

W = Philips "Johan de Witt", Dordrecht, the Netherlands (motors, also development)
KH = Philips, Heerlen, the Netherlands (tape heads, pick up elements, probably no development - spare production capacity while valve production at Heerlen was phased out slowly)

Last edited by Maarten; 1st Aug 2014 at 12:41 pm.
Maarten is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 10:26 pm   #163
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

i just discovered that the audio head in my 1979 N1702 VCR also has a WRlp sticker on it... and is made of green plastic

the WRlp marked head in one of my EL3302 is also made of green plastic instead of the usual brownish plastic, so i suspect that it could be a replacement head fitted in the late 70s or early 80s
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2014, 10:32 pm   #164
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

I used to replace the record/playback head on my intensively-used EL3302 regularly throughout the 1970's due to wear. I was informed that the design life was 500 hours. I seldom used cheap tapes, mostly using Philips, BASF, and TDK C120's. CES provided an excellent spares service. A clue might be if the paint on the adjusting screw has been disturbed.
emeritus is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2014, 8:37 am   #165
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

the paint on the adjusting screws is rarely found intact as even if it wasn't disturbed by the previous owner, it's very brittle and tends to flake off with age and vibrations

what's fun is, later in the 70 Philips called these plastic bodied heads "long life" with no apparent improvements over the older 500 hours heads
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2014, 3:39 pm   #166
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

i'm wondering why in about 1969 EL3302s as well as many other Philips products started using outsourced electronic components, particulary Motorola transistors and japanese resistors and capacitors, then in about 1972-73 they reverted back to using Philips' own components
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2014, 8:17 pm   #167
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,184
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Televsion sets made in The Netherlands and Belgium used some Japanese and Hong Kong components as well. I seem to remember this continued in one way or the other into the mid 1970's. Might be due to a production shortage at Philips Components or uncompetitive pricing.

In case of some audio equipment it could also be related to the place of manufacture. It would make sense that Eastern factories used more locally sourced components.
Maarten is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2014, 1:20 am   #168
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,637
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

I'm surprised that anyone questions the inclusion of imported components.
Philips may have been late in adopting this practice, as they had a Multinational production empire, but sadly even they couldn't hold back the tide indefinitely.
Most other manufacturers threw in the towel years before.
Another thread, about Mullard (Philips) transistors appearing in Japanese radios seems to indicate that it was not a completely one way trend, while it lasted.
AC/HL is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2014, 1:37 am   #169
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,184
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Well, since Philips had many fully owned and supposedly efficient (since their production methods and product lines have mostly survived up until this very moment) component factories world wide, them including imported components in sets manufactured near their own component factories and distribution system in Belgium and The Netherlands during the 1960's and 1970's can be considered a bit surprising.

Philips transistors appearing in Japanese radios is worthwile to examine a bit closer. I suspect it has something to do with their ties with Matsushita or with Japanese sets produced outside Japan since I can't think of another reasonable explanation given import and fabrication restrictions on foreign components in Japan.

Last edited by Maarten; 9th Aug 2014 at 1:44 am.
Maarten is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2014, 9:21 am   #170
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
I'm surprised that anyone questions the inclusion of imported components.
That would make sense if Philips started using imported/outsourced components in 1969 and never went back to using their own components, but instead, by the mid 70s they were using 100% Philips components again and they continued to do so until at least the late 80s
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2014, 9:27 am   #171
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
Philips transistors appearing in Japanese radios is worthwile to examine a bit closer. I suspect it has something to do with their ties with Matsushita or with Japanese sets produced outside Japan since I can't think of another reasonable explanation given import and fabrication restrictions on foreign components in Japan.
what's ever crazier is, i've seen many cheap Italian made drivers in the speaker systems of some 70s Silver and Realtone music centres
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2014, 12:05 pm   #172
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Temporary shortage, perhaps? What was going on politically around the time, that might have had an effect on international trade?
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.
julie_m is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2014, 12:34 pm   #173
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,184
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyhaflinger View Post
what's ever crazier is, i've seen many cheap Italian made drivers in the speaker systems of some 70s Silver and Realtone music centres
No other Italian components in them? Of course, it could have had something to do with import regulations (importing an unfinished product, mounting a locally made loudspeaker to make a complete product), but I don't know how those were in Italy.
Maarten is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2014, 9:35 am   #174
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

the speakers were the only Italian made components actually, and there were no particular import restrictions or local assembly incentives in Italy back then as far as i know... in fact most Japanese products sold here were 100 Japanese

The point is, these speakers were probably surplus stock and were dirt cheap

by the way, i've also seen EL3302 recorders and N2500 players used in some italian music centres made in small numbers by family-run makers in the 70s

Last edited by Jimmyhaflinger; 11th Aug 2014 at 9:41 am.
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 21st Aug 2014, 2:00 pm   #175
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by camtechman View Post
The other major difference between the 3300 and the models that followed was that the 3300's motor was not electronically contolled for speed stability.

The motor in the 3300 had an internal, mechanical, centrifugal control whereas the later model had the additional electronic circuit board.
i just got an EL3301A/00 WR-02 38/65 and it still has the centrifugal speed control motor just like the EL3300

Actually the only differences from my EL3300 is the erase protection mechanism, a slighly different coloured plastic case (grey instead of chocolate), the bottom cover held by regular screws instead of the larger captive screws used in the 3300, and the reflective plate in the cassette compartment

luckily, unlike in my 3300 which runs way too slow, the motor is running very close to the correct speed in this 3301, maybe because it's an almost unused example in excellent conditions
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2014, 7:06 am   #176
Ekcoman
Heptode
 
Ekcoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southend, Essex, UK
Posts: 657
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

It appears in many of the posts here that the 3300 tends to run a tad slow. I guess not an issue back in 1964 as probably before music cassettes marketed and shared. Being initially so few around slight speed variations weren't an issue.
__________________
"I really am seriously downsizing "
Ekcoman is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2014, 8:32 am   #177
PaulE27
Pentode
 
PaulE27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK.
Posts: 222
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

It might even have been a deliberate decision. Given that there was no way that Philips could make them run at exactly the right speed, better for them to be slow rather than fast. Imagine the complaints if a C60 only recorded 59 minutes before the tape ran out!
PaulE27 is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2014, 1:16 pm   #178
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

i don't think they were deliberately adjusted for a lower speed as Philips always wanted cassette machines to comply with the standard and that all tapes be fully interchangeable between different machines,

also the same EL3300 centrifugally regulated motor fitted in my EL3301 is running very close to the exact speed
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Old 22nd Aug 2014, 1:18 pm   #179
camtechman
Nonode
 
camtechman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 2,552
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekcoman View Post
I guess not an issue back in 1964 as probably before music cassettes marketed and shared. Being initially so few around slight speed variations weren't an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulE27 View Post
It might even have been a deliberate decision
My conclusion too.
__________________
When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it!
camtechman is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2014, 1:28 am   #180
Jimmyhaflinger
Heptode
 
Jimmyhaflinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Spezia, Italy
Posts: 834
Default Re: History Of Philips EL33XX Series Cassette Recorder

a friend told me that some of the very last EL3302s from the mid 70s (from the Austrian factory he says) had a plastic flywheel, i've never seen one myself, is this true?
Jimmyhaflinger is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:38 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.