Channel 14? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

ppppenguin · 12th Jul 2006, 5:12 pm

This web site mentions a channel 14 in Band III.

http://www.pembers.freeserve.co.uk/W....html#Channels

The map and transmitter list on the same site does not mention ch14.

http://www.pembers.freeserve.co.uk/4...ansmitters.gif

When Darryl designed the Aurora converter he included ch14 based on this information. It's bit of a mystery to both of us.

Does anyone know anything about it?

Dave Moll · 12th Jul 2006, 8:18 pm

I'm sure I read somewhere (though I can't remember where) that channel 14 was allocated but never used.

If I can find the information, I'll post it here, unless someone else beats me to it.

ppppenguin · 14th Jul 2006, 7:40 am

A friend has given me this information:

According to the Television Engineers' Pocket Book of 1973 (Newnes) Ch14 was allocated at 216.25MHz sound and 219.75MHz vision. It then goes on to give a complete listing of all the UK operational transmitters and chanel allocatons at the time. Ch14 is not listed.

In the March 2006 issue of Television Magazine an article by Keith Hamer and Garry Smith states categorcically that, although allocated, Ch14 was never used.

I checked my Television Engineers' Pocket Book 1968 edition and ch14 is not mentioned. This suggests that ch14 was allocated sometime between 1968 and 1973 but never used. Seems odd since the 405 line service was then on notice to be scrapped.

Heatercathodeshort · 14th Jul 2006, 8:08 am

Hello,
The EMI/HMV tuner used in the 1824 series was a 14 channel unit and as far as my memory serves me was the only receiver to have a channel 14 position. It is a very long time ago but I remember all mush and interference vanishing when this channel was selected on the incremental tuner,indicating that no coils were in this switch position.
Something tells me it allowed access to the i.f. output via the aerial socket for possible connection of a future UHF tuner even in those early days of 1954 but not having the manual to hand at the moment cannot verify this. These notes are from memory and over 40 years ago!
Regards John

tubesrule · 14th Jul 2006, 4:55 pm

Thanks to everyone for digging into this. Since I have the space, I guess I'll leave it in, although it sounds like it won't be of much use.

Darryl

Dave Moll · 14th Jul 2006, 5:43 pm

At least it enables anyone with a CH14 position on their tuner to see whether it has been connected up.

Brigham · 16th Jul 2006, 11:03 pm

Didn't some Band I/III sets have only 12 positions on the turret, with one being marked ch.12/13? These must have been the last sets supplied specifically for a particular location, although I can't think where. We never saw anything higher than ch.10(V) here in Co. Durham. I seem to recall that those high Band III channels were actually BBC in some far-flung places. Must've led to some odd-looking 'combined' arrays!

David_Robinson · 17th Jul 2006, 8:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brigham

... those high Band III channels were actually BBC in some far-flung places.

Belmont (Lincolnshire) Ch13, Winter Hill (Lancashire) Ch12, Wenvoe (south Wales) (BBC Wales) Ch13, just to list the main stations. I'm not sure any of these count as 'far-flung'!

Hybrid tellies · 17th Jul 2006, 11:59 pm

Until I read this thread I never heard of a 405 line channel 14.
The band 3 channels 6-13 were used first by the ITA then spare channels for BBC1 in problem areas such as the fringe areas around the edge of the Holme Moss transmitter area such as Humberside and Merseyside.
As for the higher channels of band 3 only being used in far flung places how about Membury (ITA for large parts of the South Midlands) and Caradon Hill (ITA for much of Cornwall and large parts of Devon including Plymouth) both used Ch12, in addition to those already mentioned.
And before anyone has a go I do not think Devon and Cornwall is any more "far flung" than say County Durham or indeed Lancashire.

Brigham · 22nd Jul 2006, 6:47 pm

>>I'm not sure any of these count as 'far-flung'!<<

'Far-flung' refers to anywhere outside the Co. Durham of my childhood, which was quite large enough for any growing boy, in my opinion. The only place 'outside' which I recollect having any real identification with was Aberfan, in Wales; the tragedy there affected us all deeply, unlike events in Vietnam, Suez &c., with which the newspapers seemed obsessed on a daily basis, and which for all I knew or cared may as well have been on Mars. All of which appears to have attracted more interest than the original question.
So were there some sets with only twelve positions for thirteen channels? Did you have to specify whether you wanted Ch.12 or Ch.13, in the same way as you once had to state 'London' or 'Birmingham'? Or did I just imagine it?

Dave Moll · 22nd Jul 2006, 9:37 pm

The set I have with twelve VHF channels has a single position marked "12-13". My guess is that it was centred between the two and you used the fine tuning to go one way or the other.

I don't currently have a source of channel 12 or 13 signal to confirm this theory. Perhaps there is someone with the new aurora and a similar set who can do so.

Heatercathodeshort · 10th Aug 2006, 4:57 pm

Hello,
My memory served me well with regard to the 14 channel tuner fitted to the HMV 1824 series of 1954. I managed to find this old advertisement in a copy of the RADIO TIMES. It is advertising a band one only range of models but mention is made of the 14 channel tuner that would be available and was indeed supplied and fitted. These sets were little better than the 1807 series of 5 years previous and like that poor receiver I never saw an 1824 working correctly. They were written off by their owners at an early stage. Regards John.

12th Jul 2006, 5:12 pm	#1
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Channel 14? This web site mentions a channel 14 in Band III. http://www.pembers.freeserve.co.uk/W....html#Channels The map and transmitter list on the same site does not mention ch14. http://www.pembers.freeserve.co.uk/4...ansmitters.gif When Darryl designed the Aurora converter he included ch14 based on this information. It's bit of a mystery to both of us. Does anyone know anything about it?

12th Jul 2006, 8:18 pm	#2
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,130	Re: Channel 14? I'm sure I read somewhere (though I can't remember where) that channel 14 was allocated but never used. If I can find the information, I'll post it here, unless someone else beats me to it.

14th Jul 2006, 7:40 am	#3
ppppenguin Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: North London, UK. Posts: 6,168	Re: Channel 14? A friend has given me this information: According to the Television Engineers' Pocket Book of 1973 (Newnes) Ch14 was allocated at 216.25MHz sound and 219.75MHz vision. It then goes on to give a complete listing of all the UK operational transmitters and chanel allocatons at the time. Ch14 is not listed. In the March 2006 issue of Television Magazine an article by Keith Hamer and Garry Smith states categorcically that, although allocated, Ch14 was never used. I checked my Television Engineers' Pocket Book 1968 edition and ch14 is not mentioned. This suggests that ch14 was allocated sometime between 1968 and 1973 but never used. Seems odd since the 405 line service was then on notice to be scrapped.

14th Jul 2006, 8:08 am	#4
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: Channel 14? Hello, The EMI/HMV tuner used in the 1824 series was a 14 channel unit and as far as my memory serves me was the only receiver to have a channel 14 position. It is a very long time ago but I remember all mush and interference vanishing when this channel was selected on the incremental tuner,indicating that no coils were in this switch position. Something tells me it allowed access to the i.f. output via the aerial socket for possible connection of a future UHF tuner even in those early days of 1954 but not having the manual to hand at the moment cannot verify this. These notes are from memory and over 40 years ago! Regards John

14th Jul 2006, 4:55 pm	#5
tubesrule Hexode Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Michigan USA Posts: 325	Re: Channel 14? Thanks to everyone for digging into this. Since I have the space, I guess I'll leave it in, although it sounds like it won't be of much use. Darryl

14th Jul 2006, 5:43 pm	#6
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,130	Re: Channel 14? At least it enables anyone with a CH14 position on their tuner to see whether it has been connected up.

16th Jul 2006, 11:03 pm	#7
Brigham Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Co. Durham, UK. Posts: 1,117	Re: Channel 14? Didn't some Band I/III sets have only 12 positions on the turret, with one being marked ch.12/13? These must have been the last sets supplied specifically for a particular location, although I can't think where. We never saw anything higher than ch.10(V) here in Co. Durham. I seem to recall that those high Band III channels were actually BBC in some far-flung places. Must've led to some odd-looking 'combined' arrays!

17th Jul 2006, 11:59 pm	#9
Hybrid tellies Nonode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area. Posts: 2,967	Re: Channel 14? Until I read this thread I never heard of a 405 line channel 14. The band 3 channels 6-13 were used first by the ITA then spare channels for BBC1 in problem areas such as the fringe areas around the edge of the Holme Moss transmitter area such as Humberside and Merseyside. As for the higher channels of band 3 only being used in far flung places how about Membury (ITA for large parts of the South Midlands) and Caradon Hill (ITA for much of Cornwall and large parts of Devon including Plymouth) both used Ch12, in addition to those already mentioned. And before anyone has a go I do not think Devon and Cornwall is any more "far flung" than say County Durham or indeed Lancashire. __________________ Simon BVWS member

22nd Jul 2006, 6:47 pm	#10
Brigham Octode Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Co. Durham, UK. Posts: 1,117	Re: Channel 14? >>I'm not sure any of these count as 'far-flung'!<< 'Far-flung' refers to anywhere outside the Co. Durham of my childhood, which was quite large enough for any growing boy, in my opinion. The only place 'outside' which I recollect having any real identification with was Aberfan, in Wales; the tragedy there affected us all deeply, unlike events in Vietnam, Suez &c., with which the newspapers seemed obsessed on a daily basis, and which for all I knew or cared may as well have been on Mars. All of which appears to have attracted more interest than the original question. So were there some sets with only twelve positions for thirteen channels? Did you have to specify whether you wanted Ch.12 or Ch.13, in the same way as you once had to state 'London' or 'Birmingham'? Or did I just imagine it?

22nd Jul 2006, 9:37 pm	#11
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,130	Re: Channel 14? The set I have with twelve VHF channels has a single position marked "12-13". My guess is that it was centred between the two and you used the fine tuning to go one way or the other. I don't currently have a source of channel 12 or 13 signal to confirm this theory. Perhaps there is someone with the new aurora and a similar set who can do so.

10th Aug 2006, 4:57 pm	#12
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: Channel 14? Hello, My memory served me well with regard to the 14 channel tuner fitted to the HMV 1824 series of 1954. I managed to find this old advertisement in a copy of the RADIO TIMES. It is advertising a band one only range of models but mention is made of the 14 channel tuner that would be available and was indeed supplied and fitted. These sets were little better than the 1807 series of 5 years previous and like that poor receiver I never saw an 1824 working correctly. They were written off by their owners at an early stage. Regards John. Attached Thumbnails