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Old 8th Apr 2018, 7:54 pm   #1
bionicmerlin
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Default Gents Master Clocks advice

I have been collecting the odd Gents clocks over the last couple years with the view of installing a master clock system in the house workshop etc. With a new central heating system installed was the ideal time to do the cabling.
I have one small reversed pulse clock that im putting to one side just for now due to only having one slave clock. I have two other master clocks and I want to use one.
no 1 is from 1932 with no pendulum
no 2 is from 1966 complete
I do not believe the 1966 clock was used as a normal master clock system as it appears to work on 48 volt and has a switch on the internal slave clock that produces a 30 seconds on/ 30 seconds off pulse.
I have removed the pendulum from clock no 2 and am using it in clock number 1.
For testing the clock it is just on the ground and works very well off a CB transformer.
Can i ask is it best to give the clock a service oil etc or just let it run. Also when i bolt it to the wall do i line the pendulum up level as when the case is upright the pendulum is just off centre.
The chance of getting another pendulum is slim so i think i will just be using the older clock
Could someone date my slave clock shown in the picture as well. And anymore information would be great.
Thanks Andy
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Old 8th Apr 2018, 9:09 pm   #2
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Hi Andy,

Those are good looking clocks. I also have a master clock at home, with a few slave dials wired to it. It's a nifty thing to have in a home.

Preferably you should dismantle the clock in pieces, clean all parts re-assemble and oil it. Do not try to clean it without dismantling, that is not effective enough. As a basic rule only pivots and their bushings should be oiled. That is the bearings so to say. No oil on wheels (cogs) as it collects dust and will do more damage than good.

If you think this seems intimidating I felt the same the first time I dismantled a clock movement, I do recommend that you read and learn about how all parts work and how a clock is serviced before you go for it. You can find much info about clock maintenance on internet.

Take lots of photos before and during the process, it can be hard to remember how all parts come together.

Provided that the clocks escapement is correctly adjusted the pendulum should hang straight down when hanging on the wall. There is often a 'ruler' att the bottom of the case to help with this.
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Old 8th Apr 2018, 9:56 pm   #3
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Your light wood clock looks the same as my Gents master clock, except mine has a red seconds-hand on it, which jumps two seconds at a time. Mine gives a pulse out every thirty seconds, and works off 220 mA, easily provided by an old in-line 1A 12V PSU and adjusted by an internal rheostat.

According to the handbook, the clock should be secured with ALL mounting holes used and set up with a plumb line on a solid - not a partition - wall. I haven't oiled mine and it runs OK. There's an oiling tool hanging inside my clock; I suppose it could do with re-lubing, really. I'm forbidden from running it through night as Mrs B. can't be on with the 'Thunk!' every thirty seconds when the magnets pull the armature over and kick the pendulum.

My pendulum is aligned centrally with the little movement guide mounted on the case back. It sounds like your movement is not plumb in the case if the pendulum doesn't line up.

Looking at your slave-clock, the hands and figures are the same as the ones installed at BBC Skelton in 1943 - although these had seconds hands and movements.
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Old 8th Apr 2018, 10:21 pm   #4
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampus View Post
As a basic rule only pivots and their bushings should be oiled. That is the bearings so to say. No oil on wheels (cogs) as it collects dust and will do more damage than good.
Gents suggest oil - clock oil - to be applied very sparingly: one drop on a piece of eighteen-gauge wire for each pivot, pivoted part or pin; the pin working in the pendulum slot; the tip of the stirrup catch; the small catch on the gravity lever; the pin on which the roller turns, but do not get oil on the face of the roller and the pallet!

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Originally Posted by Hampus View Post
There is often a 'ruler' att the bottom of the case to help with this.
That's what I meant. I had a mental block there but have just had a look. It's a 'current indicator' to see whether the pendulum is being kicked hard enough. The tip of the pendulum beneath the weight is pointed and should align with the centre of the scale.
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 9:00 am   #5
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

I am also a Gents Pulsynetic enthusiast, I have 8 masters, although only one is permanently running.
I think you will find the attached document very helpful.
Andy
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 9:57 am   #6
mark_in_manc
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Hi Gents ()

That's an interesting document. I have an ITR (International Time Recorders, sometimes marked IBM) master clock and slaves. The master works OK (now I have made a new cam to drive the mainspring - it's a conventional long-case clock, wound (via that cam) by an electric motor, with some nice add-ons to deal with what happens if the main clock gets out of sync with the slaves). If anyone had a similar book of knowledge for that system, I'd be very interested in seeing it - I'm having issues with my slaves!

cheers
Mark
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 10:32 am   #7
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Mark,
I've always steered clear of the ITR/IBM systems because their approach was an electrically rewound mechanical clock, so less interesting (to me) than Hipp toggles (PO36 and Magneta) or Synchronome and Pulsynetic clocks. I'll see if there are any similar AHS documents for your system, although I guess I shouldn't really make them available to non-members!!! I am a member purely because of their Electrical Clock Section, which does make it rather expensive.
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 12:56 pm   #8
mark_in_manc
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Alright Andy - if you do find anything relevant let me know - happy to make a small payment to whoever is appropriate. cheers, Mark
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 2:40 pm   #9
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Mark,
I've checked and as expected I'm afraid I don't have anything on the ITR/IBM, sorry.
Andy
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 5:24 pm   #10
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicmerlin View Post
I do not believe the 1966 clock was used as a normal master clock system as it appears to work on 48 volt and has a switch on the internal slave clock that produces a 30 seconds on/ 30 seconds off pulse.
The 1966 clock's additional two contact sets are there to provide a longer duration 1 minute impulse for use with time recorders. I have the same model clock but sadly mine is missing the dial contact set.
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 7:12 pm   #11
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
I am also a Gents Pulsynetic enthusiast, I have 8 masters, although only one is permanently running.
I think you will find the attached document very helpful.
Andy
Andy, I'm a Synchronome fan myself, but that document you posted is wonderful and will be of great use to me! Many thanks.
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 8:05 pm   #12
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

I may be a Gents enthusiast, but that doesn't preclude me being a Synchronome enthusiast as well!
I have four Mk1 and a Mk2, although none are running at the moment. Two ran happily for a decade but have become temperamental, I think they need their pendulums lifting out and all moving parts given a good clean and lubrication where necessary.
It's the usual problem, too many projects!
Synchronomes are much more elegant machines IMHO, whereas Pulsynetics are more robust and just keep going.
Andy
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 8:16 pm   #13
Robsradio
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

And I thought i was the only one around here with a 'problem' collecting these things, seems I am in good company
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 9:22 pm   #14
bionicmerlin
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Thanks for the replays.
Andy that's a great help your documents that just about covers it all.
Rob my 1966 clock gives a 30second pulse not a minute.
I think I'm going to be using the 1932 clock for my system.i think I will give it a reasonable service . What's the best oil to use? Its fairly clean but the last owner said it was In use up to 2012 before it was rescued a few months later. Infact he gave me the history of the clock so that's a nice touch Andy
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 9:57 pm   #15
Phil G4SPZ
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

I'm delighted to see so many Gent master clocks enjoying second leases of life in the hands of enthusiasts. These were in common use in virtually every hospital at one time. I think their use in that sector declined largely because of cost, particularly having to reconfigure the remote wiring whenever building alterations were taking place (which was all the time). I remember them quite fondly from my 30 years in the NHS and don't recall one ever going wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
I am a member [of the AHS] purely because of their Electrical Clock Section, which does make it rather expensive.
Phew, I should say so! Sixty quid a year, and no reductions for us OAPs...
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Old 9th Apr 2018, 10:26 pm   #16
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
I think their use in that sector declined largely because of cost, particularly having to reconfigure the remote wiring whenever building alterations were taking place...
Our one-second master clock at Skelton was replaced early 1980s with a HCD transistorised drive unit disciplined from the station rubidium oscillator. I re-wired our 24V series loop system with a parallel system using clocks with Swedish 'Westerstrand' movements when the Gents series clock spares became unobtainable, in particular the little rubber anti-vibration mounting bushes.

My only regret (hindsight is an exact science...) is chucking a dozen or so bakelite-cased slave clocks into the skip. I simply had nowhere to store them!
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 12:30 am   #17
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

I also have this Gents master clock. Not the type i want to use just now as its a bit to modern and has to have its own slave clocks.
i had it working on test for a couple days then it stopped and wont work i think it just wants a service but not looking forward to that as its very complex.
It was removed from a fire station
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 9:10 am   #18
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

Is that the type with an electrically-rewound mechanical movement, or the one full of discrete transistor circuitry and relays? They both look very similar from the outside. I can't remember their names/numbers off the top of my head. I have an example of both types, but they both have problems..........
Andy
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 12:27 pm   #19
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

My one is mechanical with the electrical wind and spring reserve . Slaves are controlled buy its internal power supply switched by 2 mercury switches.
it's A Chronopher XC407
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Old 10th Apr 2018, 1:38 pm   #20
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Default Re: Gents Master Clocks advice

That's the one, a Chronopher XC407.
Mine has a known problem, there is what is effectively a differential gear in the mechanism to drive the electrical output to the slaves which suffers from wear, the result being spurious outputs and the slaves race ahead!
Hopefully yours doesn't have this problem.
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