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Old 11th May 2018, 8:33 pm   #1
Gary Kennedy
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Default Understanding WW2 era line equipment

First off I'll apologise if this isn't the right thread, or worse still, right forum for the questions I'm asking for help on. I've spent a lot of time researching WW2 small unit organisation, and that includes subunits like the Signals Platoon of an Infantry Battalion. Over the years I've come to conclude there's very little information on the capabilities and equipment available to a 1940s era Signal Platoon. I've fairly recently been able to get a much better picture of the allocation of equipment to several types of Signal Platoon, which leads me into needing to understand what this equipment could and couldn't do.

The problem then is there is a lot of highly technical information you can pull up that I frankly don't understand; I'm not a fully paid up Luddite, but do display low tech tendencies. What I'm trying to establish rather is how different types of equipment worked together in quite basic terms, and fingers crossed some kind soul here might offer their thoughts.

So, here's my list of things you want to ask about Battalion level signalling but were afraid to ask...

1. Switchboard; British Battalions used the Universal Call 6-line or 10-line. I understand that this required electric power provided by dry cell batteries and had its own telephone handset. Outstations were connected to the switchboard, so a call in could be connected to another outstation on the same switchboard.
2. Telephone set D Mark V; a handset that could be connected to the UC-6 or UC-10, or directly to another D Mk V set. Set powered by dry cells. The set could be used for speech or to send Morse.
3. Fullerphone Mark IV; a handset that could only send Morse via a telegraphy key. Could use the same line as a speech telephone if used in conjunction with a superposing unit.
4. Telephone set, L; a handset for use with the UC-6 or UC-10. Questions about it being; a) had to be powered by dry cells, b) capable of voice only, c). could a D set be paired up directly to an L set?
5. Telephone set H; looks to be a late war entry to the Sig Pl. A sound powered set so it required no electric power. I take it the H set could only be paired to another H set? Could it be plugged into the switchboard set-up?
6. Telephone, sound powered, set No.1. This I can only find being used by Mortar Platoons, with one pair per detachment so a controller could go ahead and pass orders back to the mortar team. I understand this had earphones and breastplate mounted microphone for hands free usage. I take it the cable linking the phones was permanently attached, does anyone know the length of the cable?

As I'm trying to put stuff together I may have more 'I don't know the answer to my own question' moments, but if anyone can help with the above to start with it would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Gary
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Old 11th May 2018, 8:56 pm   #2
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

I'm not familiar with the "Universal Call 6-line or 10-line" switchboard to which your refer. I do, however, have a five-line concentrator (pictured below). Although this requires its own battery to operate its "night alarm", it otherwise uses only the local batteries in the connected field telephones. This is primarily intended for connecting LB telephones (such as the "D", "F", "J" or "L"") to each other, using a similar unit for its local operator, but I see no reason why the same arrangement couldn't be used with sound-powered units such as the "H", given that they also use magneto signalling, so long as the local operator also uses a similar unit. Whether this arrangement was used is another matter.

It should be noted, however, that although telephone set "D" includes a bell enabling it to be signalled using a magneto, it uses only its morse buzzer for signalling other telephones. It therefore wouldn't work with a switchboard/concentrator that uses drop-down indicators to indicate that a telephone is ringing in.

With reference to your question about connecting a "D" to an "L", yes it is possible to interconnect any of the the LB telephones mentioned above. In fact I have interconnections between various types of field telephone - including British and German units! Yes, I know that wouldn't have been done in the WW2 situation.
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Last edited by Dave Moll; 11th May 2018 at 9:04 pm. Reason: inter-connectability
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Old 12th May 2018, 1:35 pm   #3
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

Gary is correct in all his assumptions. The Switchboard UC 6/10 line was a lamp calling switchboard and could be called by a Tele D MkV contrary to what Dave says. There was also an 'add-on' unit to either Switchboard U.C. that could be fitted on the RH side of the switchboard which added a further two lines to magneto (wind the handle), CB/CBS signalling (just loop the line) or automatic exchange i.e. lines off a public exchange!. The only one I've ever seen is the one I had with my 10 line UC back in the 1950's.

The Switchboard UC was replaced towards the end of WW2 with the 'Switchboard, Magneto, 10 line' - Tele D Mk Vs could not call it but could be called by the switchboard. But by then the Tele L had come along to replace it. See http://www.qsl.net/pe1ngz/army/army-...eto-10line.jpg

The 'Tele H' could be used with both switchboards but as the telephones were sound powered, they tended to be limited to short lines. Often used on rifle ranges.

The 'Concentrator 5 Line' that Dave mentions was not used as a switchboard. It had been designed for use by Royal Artillery units for connecting individual guns to their control point. Hence not used by infantry units.

Ian
Royal Signals officer 50+ years ago and cadet forces signals unit before that!
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Old 12th May 2018, 2:35 pm   #4
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

As I said, I'm not familiar with the specific usages nor the UC 6/10, so was only able to speak from the functioning of the equipment I have. I therefore happily defer to someone with experience of using this equipment.
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Old 12th May 2018, 5:06 pm   #5
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

Gary, perhaps you could try the VMARS [Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Site] for into re the WW2 application of this kit. I asked [by email] for some rather obscure info re a WW2 Radio set a few months ago. A gentleman very kindly made a visit to their archive and dug it out for me a couple of weeks later. You might even find veterans there who who worked on the telephone systems at the time An obvious place to enquire but only if you know what VMARS is I suppose. You can check their on-line list for handbooks and articles etc.

Cheers,

Dave W

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Old 12th May 2018, 10:31 pm   #6
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Kennedy View Post

1. Switchboard; British Battalions used the Universal Call 6-line or 10-line. I understand that this required electric power provided by dry cell batteries and had its own telephone handset. Outstations were connected to the switchboard, so a call in could be connected to another outstation on the same switchboard.
2. Telephone set D Mark V; a handset that could be connected to the UC-6 or UC-10, or directly to another D Mk V set. Set powered by dry cells. The set could be used for speech or to send Morse.
3. Fullerphone Mark IV; a handset that could only send Morse via a telegraphy key. Could use the same line as a speech telephone if used in conjunction with a superposing unit.
4. Telephone set, L; a handset for use with the UC-6 or UC-10. Questions about it being; a) had to be powered by dry cells, b) capable of voice only, c). could a D set be paired up directly to an L set?
5. Telephone set H; looks to be a late war entry to the Sig Pl. A sound powered set so it required no electric power. I take it the H set could only be paired to another H set? Could it be plugged into the switchboard set-up?
6. Telephone, sound powered, set No.1. This I can only find being used by Mortar Platoons, with one pair per detachment so a controller could go ahead and pass orders back to the mortar team. I understand this had earphones and breastplate mounted microphone for hands free usage. I take it the cable linking the phones was permanently attached, does anyone know the length of the cable?
Extremely interesting questions, and as I see it, the right forum!

Seen from Norway, where the posibility to use different equipment together was an important thing in the post war era, this is relevant.

Telephones with battery powered transmitters (microphones) may talk to each others across systems. Most non UK had a ringer and a generator for signalling, but did not disconnect the receiver when not in use, so the y could receive ring signals from UK phones with buzzers for ringing. Most UK phones had ringers so they could receive ringing from phones with generators. both systems made power enough to lit up the switchboard.

Some phones was able to be used on CB lines.

Voice powered phones did usually not be suitable to work with other systems.

The max distance between 2 phones did vary with kind of wires, and how they were hung/buried... weather...
Voice powered phones up to 6 km
others 40-60km

With top quality lines considerably more.

dsk
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Old 13th May 2018, 7:46 pm   #7
Gary Kennedy
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

Thank you to all for the replies, I'm relieved to find I'm not too far off the mark in my understanding. You know I had bookmarked VMARS from previous searches re various wireless sets (principally the 18 and 38 set for the Infantry subject) but never thought of them for line queries.

Fingers crossed I'll get back to my scribbling on the subject in the next week or so may find myself with a few more queries. In the meantime your replies are much appreciated.

Cheers,

Gary
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Old 13th May 2018, 10:34 pm   #8
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

When I was researching the WWII coast artillery (406 Battery, 561 Coast Regiment, RA) at Workington I met up with one of the ex-HG gunners who was attached to the battery and he told me that '...the commands came through from the Battery Observation Post to the gun-floor via telephone and a large loud-speaker'.

I'm guessing some sort of public address was used here. I'd be interested to learn what sort of telephony may have existed between searchlight emplacements, watch-shelters, engine-room, guard-house, gun floors and Battery Obs. Post (if any).

Records suggest the battery was linked to the outside world by GPO telephone too: Workington 542.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~rw...fence/hgcb.htm
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Old 14th May 2018, 6:25 pm   #9
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

It was more than likely a 'Telephone Loudspeaking No 2' - not the GPO one but four loudspeaker units connected by field cable to a 'Control unit'. The control unit had a pair of headphones and a large hand microphone, four lamps & switches, one for each loudspeaker/gun. To 'broadcast' to the guns, the appropriate gun switch was operated and the button on the mic pressed. The loudspeech came out of the speaker/s. The gun units could call control by pressing a button on the loudspeaker unit which lit a lamp on the control unit. 'Control' would then operate the switch to speak - the gun end speaking close to the loudspeaker! That was the only system I remember from my days wearing the Royal Signals cap-badge as a very young newly commissioned officer - it was a long time ago - my CO was none other than the Earl Kitchener of Khartoum!
Ian
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Old 14th May 2018, 7:24 pm   #10
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

Ian - many thanks for that; appreciated. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I know the searchlight emplacements had telephony too (perhaps similar?) as at Whitehaven the cables ran from the BOP over the cliffs at Redness Point and down to the lights.
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Old 14th May 2018, 10:03 pm   #11
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Default Re: Understanding WW2 era line equipment

The Telephone Loudspeaking No 2 of military style was probably just a carbon microphone, a battery, a transformer and a loudspeaker.

There used to be a really good History of Public Address website at http://www.historyofpa.co.uk/ but that domain is now for sale ... I suspect the owner has gone "silent key" :-(

Archived at http://archive.is/0RB8o
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