Hi Fi tuners

[WaveyDipole]

Does anyone bother with HiFi tuners anymore? It seems you can find then almost anywhere including charity shops for 15-30 quid. I came across a NAD 4020 (analogue dial FM/AM) spares or repair one for £5 and wondered whether it was worth bothering with? Unfortunately it had a couple of nasty marks on the front which rather spoils things, but I wondered whether it was worth repairing? What do they sound like? Do they have decent FM reception?

[Nickthedentist]

I certainly do. The easiest way of listening to my usual choice of station i.e. Radios 3 and 4, in superb quality stereo.

Currently, I'm using a Denon TU-460L which was given away here by a kind forum member (Nigel/vinylspinner) a month or so ago: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?p=716383

I'm listening to a chamber music concert on R3 on it at the moment, and the sound is stunning, with no discernable hiss or multipath distortion, with nothing more than 3' of insulated flex connected to the aerial terminal.

As you say, they're so cheap now, that it's barely worth bothering with non-workers unless you like a challenge.

Nick.

[paulsherwin]

Old tuners generally don't go wrong (particularly the 80s/90s ones) and huge numbers were bought, so supply now exceeds demand and very good ones are available for little money. I have more tuners than I can possibly use and am consciously trying to avoid acquiring more, but sometimes you just can't walk away.

My main system uses a Sansui TU-X501L, bought on special offer new in 1989, and my office system uses a Denon TU-260L, bought from a charity shop in Oxford for a fiver a couple of years ago. The dining room has a Marantz ST4000 which came from Freegle. I have 4 more in the loft, none of which cost more than £5.

[WaveyDipole]

I did like the feel of the tuning control on this one, a nicely weighted control that reminded me a bit of the Eddystone that I have. Nothing like todays cheap push button and lighweight plasticky stuff. I have a Satellit 700 which gives a very good stereo output and has a pair of phono outputs. With the HiFi setup it just seems easier to have something permanently plugged in rather than keep pluggining/unplugging a portable with resulting wear on connectors and cables. As I mentioned, the defacement of the fascia rather spoilt it, but as you point out paul, I didn't think there would be much else wrong with it. That was the only thing that held me back from buying it.

For some reason they only seem to have FM and maybe MW, rarely LW and never ommercial SW bands. I presume this was down to target audience - i.e. hifi rather than radio enthusiast?

[vinylspinner]

I still have a large collection of FM tuners, including 2 fully rebuilt Troughlines with separate decoders, a Beomaster 5000 which is very good indeed and a couple of old Pioneers from the mid 70's and several Sony ES models, all of which sound good.

Still listen to radio 3 most evenings and look forward to the Proms each year, some of the radio 3 broadcasts are still high quality and worth a listen.


Nigel

[Restoration73]

Tuners lacking LW were aimed initially at the American markets.
I paid somewhat more for my 4020 in 1995 but it has never failed. The radio is not
synthesised so you are not stuck with tuning steps or birdies that are sometimes
noted with later tuners. The LED tuning indicator mimics the old Quad tuners.
FM only does simplify design - at one time the MW band was so congested in Europe
a 6kHz i.f. filter was used so the sound was not very hi-fi.

[McMurdo]

I have a denon tu260 rds on the lounge hifi, though I can route my freeview to it if I want. When recording a programme I darent use freeview as it mutes or glitches whenever a moped drives by. FM is the only way.

Up here in the spare bedroom I had a Pioneer RDS tuner off ebay..for an embarrassingly low price not too long ago. I had to re-cap it as it had bulging electrolytics, though it did work as found.

FM is the only way I generally listen to the radio.

[mole42uk]

I think it's very important to use FM receivers. There will come a time when the Powers That Be decide to re-allocate the VHF broadcast band and will encourage us all to use DAB. There is a valid argument that if there are enough people using VHF-FM then we will get to keep some, if not all, of the broadcast band.
My Troughline, courtesy of Nigel/vinylspinner, is used most days and it replaced a couple of Heathkit FM tuners. If anyone doubts the quality and sheer engineering excellence of the older FM tuners, just grab a chance to listen to a Troughline, tune to the Third Programme and marvel at the stability, fidelity and dynamic range.
Compare that with any sort of DAB receiver, at any price, and you'll see why it's important to keep the VHF-FM broadcasting service.

[paulsherwin]

No discussion of DAB in this thread please.

[G6Tanuki]

I've had various ones over the years: Denon, Fisher, Akai.

A couple of them have had switchable IF selectivity, which is handy for those of us with a "domestic-DX" mentality.
Good ones (the Denon being the best) are also _much_ better in terms of strong-signal-handling than your average portable radio (useful when you have a Fuba UKA8 on a rotator, the local/national BBC stations are endstopping the signal-strength meter with their blather and you're trying to listen to Radio Boulogne Littoral or a Dutch free-radio station)

[camtechman]

I've still got my first stereo tuner that I bought from Lasky's (back when).

It's a TRIO KT1000, the only problem, what with everything that's being transmitted these days is the stereo indicating light seems to detect everyting as 'stereo' .

[stevehertz]

A couple of points from me. FM is by far the highest quality form of radio broadcasting, despite what the BBC and other interested parties would have us believe re DAB. Secondly, given the large amount of tuners available on auction sites etc, then unless it was a tuner that I was particularly looking for, I wouldn't buy one with serious cosmetic defects. But we're all different on that score, and of course a tuner for use in 'the den' is not so important in that respect. I have a Sony with double aerial input and assignable attenuation, mono/stereo etc that I bought around ten years ago to replace my Quad FM4 that was part of my Quad 44 system - the rest that I still use. The Quad just didn't have the station memory capacity and useful features of the Sony - good FM performer though.

But yes, keep the FM flag flying!!

[bikerhifinut]

I also have a Denon TU260L like Paul, I got it for £20 from a workmate as a stopgap when my Arcam Delta280 developed a glitch when it stopped storing stations probably due to its storage capacitor/battery failing.
I have since obtained a Troughline, £25 at an Audiojumble working and serviced, mono only but very nice audio quality.
The denon was highly rated when in production, and I can see why. The absolute audio quality isn't quite up there with the Arcam, which is stunning on the BBC R2 R3 R4 network. But It's stayed in the main system because I think its RF performance is astoundingly good especially when dealing with adjacent stations and weaker ones. It's a keeper. I'm sure Paul would agree with me there.
The Troughline I am afraid to say has not lived up to the hype in the magazines and on the net. It's fine on the Very strong BBC signal from Bilsdale, and where theres good separation between transmissions. But higher up where the commercial stations live it struggles to deal with the interference between adjacent stations and the level of (over)modulation and compression on the audio, actually unpleasant to listen to Classic FM and smooth etc. Glad I didnt pay £200 or more for it as they were going for that sum on auction sites etc after a series of reviews and restoration articles in a certain mainstream magazine.
If I can find the part I would like to get the Arcam back in as the best compromise between sound and radio performance.
ANd finally (phew) I would like to Echo the plea to keep using FM, superb sound quality from the BBC at any rate, will work in marginal reception areas without becomeing unintelligible or just muting.
A.

[Andrewausfa]

Originally Posted by WaveyDipole

For some reason they only seem to have FM and maybe MW, rarely LW and never commercial SW bands. I presume this was down to target audience - i.e. hifi rather than radio enthusiast?

I have a Sony STR-11 tuner/receiver with short wave so they are out there
Andrew

[turretslug]

Originally Posted by bikerhifinut

The Troughline I am afraid to say has not lived up to the hype in the magazines and on the net. It's fine on the Very strong BBC signal from Bilsdale, and where theres good separation between transmissions. But higher up where the commercial stations live it struggles to deal with the interference between adjacent stations and the level of (over)modulation and compression on the audio, actually unpleasant to listen to Classic FM and smooth etc. Glad I didnt pay £200 or more for it as they were going for that sum on auction sites etc after a series of reviews and restoration articles in a certain mainstream magazine.

A very fair commentary- it holds "tech appeal" for the likes of us, but it needs a good aerial and signal strength to show itself at its best and whilst the "traditional" selectivity may help with that sound quality, it doesn't help in crowded spots. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that's suffered from the "feeding frenzy" effect in the audiophile world where mythology overwhelms rational analysis. If you can find a not bad one for a good price, go for it but I imagine that most sellers will be aware that it has inflated appeal.

[paulsherwin]

The TU-260 is a very good all round tuner, particularly considering that it was originally a budget model. They have developed a bit of a following so tend to sell for more than the pennies of most old tuners, but you can still find bargains as I did.

Originally Posted by camtechman

the stereo indicating light seems to detect everyting as 'stereo' .

Broadcasters haven't switched the transmitter chains to mono for mono material since the 1980s. I think they just decided it wasn't worth the hassle, especially as people would think their stereos were broken when the pilot light was off. There is actually almost no mono programme production today anyway.

[bikerhifinut]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

The TU-260 is a very good all round tuner, particularly considering that it was originally a budget model. They have developed a bit of a following so tend to sell for more than the pennies of most old tuners, but you can still find bargains as I did.

I seem to remember there was an Audio Magazine that had a series of features on "Budget Esoterica", i.e. relatively modest items that performed way above their price point. The TU260L I seem to recall was one of them, and owning one I'd say so too. I think you should still be able to pick one up for around £25 which isn't bad at all in the scheme of things. Shame the MW/LW isnt too good but that is likely all down to the loop aerial hung off the back right where all the switchmode hash is strongest. I'd love to find out how it works with an external aerial fed in with a screened/balanced lead.
Yes those 80's and 90's solid state tuners are probably the only real "bargain" left, I don't think there were many real "dogs" made. And the "wireless" is still a marvellous source of free entertainment and information.

A.

[G8HQP Dave]

I have never bought a commercial tuner. My first was the Nelson-Jones, made from a kit. Second was a homebrew.

For those who want to listen to good quality stereo FM a tuner is essential. The big snag these days is the raised noise floor due to all the electromagnetic smog.

[argibbo]

Originally Posted by vinylspinner

I still have a large collection of FM tuners, including 2 fully rebuilt Troughlines with separate decoders, a Beomaster 5000 which is very good indeed and a couple of old Pioneers from the mid 70's and several Sony ES models, all of which sound good.

I too have a mint Troughline 3 stereo (knackered decoder, Mr Twiddle got there before I did, so what turned out to be a leaky Philips cap ended up as scrap)

I also have a Pioneer F91.

FM radio is still very much appreciated here, though compressed commercial stations (100% or as close as possible modulation all the time) are eschewed in favour of BBC 2, 3 & 4

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave

For those who want to listen to good quality stereo FM a tuner is essential. The big snag these days is the raised noise floor due to all the electromagnetic smog.

A good, gainy, narrow-beamwidth horizontally-polarised antenna (and rotator) helps a lot - sometimes to peak up the weak signal, othertimes to shift a semi-local nasty-noise-source into one of the sidelobe nulls.

You also need to use good-quality coax [*not* 'Low Loss' TV-coax with a braid covering sparse as a motheaten net-curtain!] and make sure it's well sealed: I've seen too many past examples of water-conducting-coax for it to have any remaining amusement-value.

It's amazing how many people spend deeply-silly-money on their 'HiFi' but think it will work with a piece of wet string draped down behind as the antenna.