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Old 25th Jul 2019, 7:42 pm   #41
Mr Hoover
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

I bought a Hitachi CNP192 second hand
for £45 in 1984 when it was around 10-11 years old.
It was in regular use by a family member till around 2015 but then the Freeview box it was used with stopped working and a new telly was bought,to my knowledge nothing ever went wrong with it apart from the channel selector buttons being sometimes intermittent.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 8:46 pm   #42
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

CNP192, channel selector and tuner failures occurred but were not common, the CNP190 had channel selector failures.
Apart from those other faults were even rarer.
I had a 192 for about 12 year from new, the tuner did fail but no other faults, set passed on to father in law and in use for a further 8 or 9 years until the CRT was very much past itís best and he bought a new TV.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 10:46 pm   #43
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

Surviving Early Colour Receivers : it depends on how you define "early".

Dual Standard sets (1967-69) - not that many were made in the first place. I believe there were around 250,000 colour TV licences by 1970. Survival rate is quite low. A lot of those early CTVs would have been rented, then recovered and scrapped by the rental lcompany instead of being kept by the customer. Even the customer-owned ones became unfashionable by the 1980s, remote control and teletext were the new 'must haves' and wooden cabinets were out, replaced by black or silver plastic. Too big, heavy and unreliable to be saved as bedroom TVs, the old sets were chucked out. This also applied to the early single standard British colour TVs as well, though I remember seeing a Philips G8 and an ITT CVC5 still in use in the early 1990s.

The early 1970s Japanese colour TVs (Sony, Hitachi, Mitsubishi etc) on the other hand were often very reliable. They tended to be smaller, typically 13-18 inches screen size, making them ideal to be kept as spare room sets, or stored in attic / garage / shed. Consequently much higher survival rate. Some of them were still in use until the end of analogue TV, perhaps even after with a digital set-top box.

Thinking about how many early colour TVs could have survived, I wonder if it's the same percentage as pre-war TVs. They also had a low survival rate, out of 25000 sets there are just over 200 left. If the same proportion of dual-standard colour TVs have survived, there should be around 2000 such sets still out there, waiting to be rediscovered, along with many more single standard colour TVs.

I've generally avoided collecting early colour TVs, preferring the later monochrome sets instead. Those also became very unfashionable and rarely seen by the late 1980s. However I do have a few early CTVs, a GEC 2028 date-stamped November 1967 inside the cabinet (a very early one indeed) and a total of 3 Sony KV-1320UB (2x Mk.1 and 1x Mk.II). Current status : GEC initially produced a sightly wobbly picture, then the tripler failed. I replaced it with a universal one, this briefly restored the wobbly picture, then the focus unit started arcing. Sony Mk.II had a purple tint to the picture. I adjusted the RGB drive pots which improved it, but the tube is a bit tired. Sony Mk.I had noise (black lines) on picture, a bit like the 'sparklies' on analogue satellite TV. One of these was fixed a few years ago by Studio263 of this forum (several small-signal transistors replaced). I was subsequently given another one with the same fault but haven't looked at it yet ...
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 9:13 am   #44
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

I reckon another factor in the early demise of these sets was the horrendous power consumption. This made them rather expensive to run so accelerating the cause for a newer set, as well as the reliability issues due to heat already mentioned!
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 9:37 am   #45
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I reckon another factor in the early demise of these sets was the horrendous power consumption. This made them rather expensive to run so accelerating the cause for a newer set, as well as the reliability issues due to heat already mentioned!
I doubt it - it didn't stop people buying big plasmas which used a lot more. I've be very surprised if most people even know how much electricity a TV set uses, let alone care. Compared to the cost of heating your house, cooking, washing clothes etc, the cost of running any television is trivial (well, perhaps not an Ediophor!).

If you replaced a set that used 300W with one that used 150W (the sort of improvement that occurred between the beginning and the end of the 1970s) would you ever recoup the cost over the life of the set? Does anyone fancy doing the maths on that?
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 10:33 am   #46
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If you replaced a set that used 300W with one that used 150W (the sort of improvement that occurred between the beginning and the end of the 1970s) would you ever recoup the cost over the life of the set? Does anyone fancy doing the maths on that?
So many variables!

Definitely not if I were to replace the household Beovision 8802, which probably sees about 20 hours of action per annum. Given, though, say four hours' daily use as a figure that probably isn't unusual, and a ten year life for a set - optimistic these days - I arrive at a saving of 2190 kW/h, or £274 at a typical 2019 price of 12.5p per unit. That would buy a new TV now, but £274 was also around the price of a colour set in the '70s, and while I can't seem to locate energy prices from back then I'm sure they were a small fraction of today's.

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Old 26th Jul 2019, 1:44 pm   #47
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

The early 25" sets did use quite a bit of electricity - I think the G6 just outdoes the B&O 2600 at 400W against 380W.
When the PD500 became unnecessary power consumption dropped in sets such as the Decca and Pye duals - GEC and ITT didn't think it was necessary in the first place and their pictures are pretty good. Only Bush and Philips kept the PD500, and I think the G6 was the only single standard hybrid that used one.
Of course, TV viewing was then limited to perhaps five hours an evening. Say a receiver consumed 200W, that's conveniently a kilowatt hour. Compare that with a 50" LED set - a quick look around the workshop gives me 192W (Sony). 110W (UMC), 120W (LG) and an alarming 367W (LG plasma). Even if the average set uses a third of the power of the older TV, it's on for more than three times as long, I would suggest for the average customer. So that's more electricity consumed!
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 3:02 pm   #48
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Definitely not if I were to replace the household Beovision 8802, which probably sees about 20 hours of action per annum.
The 8802 is unusually efficient too, under 100W for a bright 26" picture. you'd struggle to improve on that, especially if you take 30+ year longevity into account.
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 9:53 pm   #49
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

Some of the 1990's and early 2000's Philips 50Hz 28" sets did improve on that, but not even by much.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 2:08 am   #50
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I can't seem to locate energy prices from back then I'm sure they were a small fraction of today's.
I looked it up on the "Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy" for 1976 it comes out at 1.899p/kWh with inflation since then at around 700% I make that 13.3p/kWh so slightly more expensive which was a surprise.*

My father was always a bit tight fisted with the heating and so I used to often leave my old room-heater TV's on all night to keep the chill off!

D

My workings out might not be too accurate it's late
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 7:44 am   #51
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

I'm not too surprised that the inflation-adjusted cost is the same as or a bit higher than now. It's the cost in pence per unit that I was after, as we were considering whether a less hungry colour TV might eventually have paid back its purchase cost in the '70s: and evidently it wouldn't have, as my ball-park figure of a 2190 kW/h lifetime energy saving amounts to £41.59 at 1976 rates.

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Old 22nd Sep 2019, 10:28 pm   #52
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

I got my first deposit for a flat in 1980 by buying Korting hybrids in 10s and re-selling them with a mark-up of about 80%! A very reliable set with a beautiful picture and provided you did a small mod to prevent heater cathode shorts the (non-British) tubes were nearly always good.

For D/S colour I now have a 19" Baird, 25" GEC and 25" 2000. I also have a 3500 and the ubiquitous Sony 1320. A Bush CTV25 was on Ebay two months back but had been mangled by a S/S conversion. All Bairds are pretty rare but the 19" one especially so.
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Old 23rd Sep 2019, 9:42 am   #53
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

In this area we did not see to many early dual standard colour televisions as most of the Bath area did not get colour television and BBC2 until early 1970 due to delays with the main Mendip transmitter coming on air.
So apart for a few customers that lived in favourable locations that could receive the Wenvoe service by the time Mendip opened most of the earliest colour tv's we saw were the original single standard 625 sets such as the Decca Bradford 10, ITT/KB CVC5, BRC 3000, Pye 691 and the early RBM A823.
As I said earlier the very few customers that lived within range of the Wenvoe UHF 625 service generally had the Decca dual standard, Bush CTV25, Pye dual standard and a few G6's. It was the few Decca dual standards, CTV 19 and CTV25, that we kept going for the longest as they seemed to be the most reliable and longest lasting of these early dual standard colour sets. They did give very good pictures and our customers were very reluctant to give them up.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 6:01 pm   #54
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

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I got my first deposit for a flat in 1980 by buying Korting hybrids in 10s and re-selling them with a mark-up of about 80%! A very reliable set with a beautiful picture and provided you did a small mod to prevent heater cathode shorts the (non-British) tubes were nearly always good...
Agreed. I have one and the picture is gorgeous and kind of smooth, if you can describe it as such. Good sound too with plenty of bass and top end as well.
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Old 24th Sep 2019, 10:04 pm   #55
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The 8802 is unusually efficient too, under 100W for a bright 26" picture. you'd struggle to improve on that, especially if you take 30+ year longevity into account.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
Some of the 1990's and early 2000's Philips 50Hz 28" sets did improve on that, but not even by much.
IIRC, the mid-eighties Salora IPSALO sets were very efficient at around 65w for 28", and a staggeringly low 15w for some of the portables. I recall they were often badged 'Long Life/ Low Energy'.
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 9:45 am   #56
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Default Re: Surviving early colour receivers

A least they got half of the slogan right!
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Old 25th Sep 2019, 6:36 pm   #57
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A least they got half of the slogan right!
Exactly what I was thinking! And don't get me started on lead-free solder..
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