Can you (still) hear line whistle?

[Graham G3ZVT]

I am in my mid 60s, and long ago lost the ability to hear 15,625Hz line whistle. However I was a little surprised to find when I restored a 405 line receiver last year, that I can no longer hear 10,125Hz either.

It has been suggested that TV sets that don't use flyback derived EHT generate much less audible whistle, I suppose that refers to sets that use mains derived EHT. Is that so?

I "suffer" from tinnitus, I may well have had it to some extent since birth, To say it sounds to me like a mixture of 405 & 625 line whistle would not be far from the truth, but I have always felt that however annoying the tinnitus might be, it somehow didn't really mask the ability to hear real sound, but now my tinnitus has got "louder" I am beginning to wonder if it does.

Hearing loss and tinnitus are no doubt separate issues.

I would be interested to hear the experiences of others.

[julie_m]

I just did a quick test on myself, using Audacity to generate a 10.125kHz sine wave. I was able to hear that, but not a 15625Hz sine wave. This could be due to my hearing deteriorating, or it could be that the standard-issue speakers on my Thinkpad are simply unable to reproduce such a frequency.

[linescan87]

I can hear 405 and 625 line whistle but it doesn't bother me, however the other half can't stand 405 line whistle. She can hear it out in the driveway when she comes home. I've told her it won't bother her as much when she gets older but that doesn't help!

John Joe.

[Andrew2]

I can still hear the 10.125 KHz whistle but not the 15.625 KHz one. Using my function gen, I find my hearing drops off a cliff at just over 13 KHz. What a comedown from my teenage years when I could hear the 625 whistle while waiting at a customers door and I used to get annoyed that most FM tuners didn't suppress the 19 KHz pilot tone!

[Refugee]

I stopped being able to hear 625 sets more than 30 years ago but I can hear the inverters on solar panels at 59 years.

[G8UWM-MildMartin]

I developed disturbing tinnitus at around 15,625 Hz in my mid-40s along with deafness above 15 kHz.
10 years later, and it's maybe around 13 kHz and quieter.
It will sometimes completely shut up with a skinful of beer, is slightly better with candesartan for blood pressure control, and was markedly worse with ramipril or amlodipine to the extent that I discontinued them and was prepared to accept the possible consequences of hypertension compared to permanent torture.

[toshiba tony]

Iv'e done a lot on this. I was unlucky enough to get the rare illness called encephalitis. Mine was the one that affects the brain. Some days I don't even know how to make a pot of tea. Tinnitus is a constant problem, as are rotating bright lights, anyway, back to line whistle, the 10.125, no problem, the 15khz one just, but its harder due to the tinnitus. I got a friend to turn it on and off and I could tell the difference. Years ago my company designed a self contained burglar alarm that employed 2 tranducers that used the Doppler effect principle. The noise they made bothered me. Also, I left the TV trade last year and I was able to diagnose SMPS (switch mode power supply) faults by listening to them. Your top end drops off as you get older, my tinnitus is about 9khz, Im 61 years old now, when I lose my top end will I lose the tinnitus? Let's hope so. Also I seem to remember at college it CAN be harmonics we hear, the phrase "fundamental frequency" rings a bell, no pun intended.

[mark2collection]

Line whistle eh? In a word, yes.

When in the same room, I can hear the WiFi router 'wheezing', phone charger & laptop charger 'pulsing' (more like a ramped 'wheeze' above 15kHz). I can also hear our electronic dimmer switches when dimmed & our remaining 625 TV as I come through the front door (TV upstairs).

The wife says 'I'm not normal' (probably true!) & she dislikes me running a 405 line TV, mind you, 45 minutes or so after switching the set off, we can still hear it!

We are both in our early 40's & friends of a similar age cannot hear these things, mind you, are they 'tuned' to such things, or can they genuinely, not hear them.

Another friend is in his late 40's has put up with tinnitus since his late teens ...

Will be interesting to see how I am as the years roll by. It can be a real nuisance, aside from the above, when in my car, only I can hear the fuel pump's high pitch scream. When listening to music & being out in the countryside, it's a real blessing.

I'm told my hearing will have started rolling off a couple of years ago.

Mark

[rogerdup]

Aah! .. those facisnating days of the begining of television when everybody can ear the 30 lines time base from the mechanical Baird receiver..
This was time by then, to switch on the nipkow disc motor and try to synchonize it to prepare the machine for reception..
Roger

.. This one.

[toshiba tony]

I have come across the phenomenon of still hearing a noise after it ceases. That's why I got someone to switch it, people at work thought I was "peculiar"
Until the test was done under controlled conditions. Like Mark, I can hear laptop psu's singing, Dell ones sound the worst, I once broke one apart and modded the snubber network which quietened it down, thyristor power supplies (to me) whistle, SMPS are the worst, because of their design, and the frequency they function at.

[Nuvistor]

I have not tried to hear either whistle but one ear cuts off a 8khz the other at 4khz so it is very unlikely.

One point of interest to those who cannot put up with the 405 line whistle. Do not use mixed dielectric capacitors in the line stage, make sure any inductors dont have loose cores. Those were the items I found made the whistle much louder.

[samjmann]

Hi, I'm nearly 61 now, my hearing at 17 was 18Khz cut off, now it's around 10Khz. I've had tinnitus since I was a child and have just had to live with it. I've got a constant 8Khz sine wave-ish whistle in each ear. I can't tolerate loud noises they cause almost mechanical thumps in each ear. You can live with the condition, but have to be careful with your hearing.

Back to Tv's, when I was younger I could easily differentiate between the tinnitus noise and components that were whistling at line frequency, the brain must have it's own 'notch filter' Using headphones is unpleasant as all the normal background sounds are surpressed, leaving just the tinnitus and the quiet music you're trying to listen to!

SJM.

[Keith]

Back in the day I had a theory that long term TV users would develop a notch in their hearing response at 10.125kc/s to counteract the line whistle.
So much for that idea. Now at 68 I have the opposite problem - tinnitus at around the same frequency. My latest hypothesis is that the hf hearing loss comes first and the tinnitus is a result of the brain overcompensating. Any takers?

[paulsherwin]

My hearing goes to 12kHz now, which is pretty typical for a 62 year old without a specific hearing problem.

[1100 man]

A couple of years ago, I spent a short while probing around the line stage of my Pye CT205 colour TV. I even got as far as switching the 'scope on before looking round the front of the TV to discover a perfectly good picture!! That was when I decided I could no longer hear a 625 line whistle!

I've spent many happy hours over the last few years with 405 line TV's on the bench. I can sure hear the penetrating line whistle from those It's sad to think that one day I won't be able to even hear that

Looking at the hearing test graph from a friend in his '80's, the axis only goes up to 8Khz anyway! His hearing peaked at 2Khz and was non existent by 4Khz! Even at 2Khz it was 17db lower than a 'normal' person! Amazingly, as far as he was concerned, he could still hear OK!
All the best
Nick

[Peter.N.]

I can still hear around 10 khz computer generated with my head a various angles, I will be 79 in April but I lost the 15 khz ability many years ago. I too have tinnitus and it sounds just like being in a shop full of 405 line TVs, very nostalgic really.

Peter

[Panrock]

Originally Posted by Keith

My latest hypothesis is that the hf hearing loss comes first and the tinnitus is a result of the brain overcompensating. Any takers?

Yes, I think there's a lot of truth in this. For if you make up for this hf loss with a hearing amplifier whose response is narrowly restricted to the 'tinnitus band', this can greatly improve matters.

There is a full discussion on my tinnitus page HERE. Incidentally, the products depicted are no longer for sale.

Steve

[McMurdo]

in my late 40's now and can hear up to 13.5khz on a sine wave. Not sure about any other waveform!

A visit to Rumbelows with mum to get hoover bags when I was a schoolboy was a painful experience. They had 4 rows of TV's all on and you had to walk down the middle of the shop to get to the counter. That and the smell of warm plastic and the prickle of EHT at head height was all too much!

[Ancient Geek]

Originally Posted by rambo1152

Hearing loss and tinnitus are no doubt separate issues.

No, they are very much connected. At least, the high-pitched whine type of tinitus is connected with the loss of higher frequency hearing. In fact, noise-induced hearing loss is the commonest cause of tinnitus.

[Panrock]

Originally Posted by Ancient Geek

No, they are very much connected.

Yes. Here's a diagram that used to be on my site that illustrates this, in simplified terms.

Steve