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Old 18th Jan 2019, 1:43 pm   #21
David G4EBT
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

65pF Vishay ones here for 2.44 + 1.38 p&p from a UK supplier:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miniature...8YQQ:rk:7:pf:0

Hope that helps.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 1:54 pm   #22
TrevorG3VLF
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

The circuit in the Product data sheet for the HEF4060BP shows a bias Resistor with the values 100 kΩ to 1 MΩ - should this be a variable Resistor?

No, the resistor is there to provide bias to get the input into a conductive region. Anything in the quoted range will do.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 2:38 pm   #23
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

Quote:
Originally Posted by David G4EBT View Post
65pF Vishay ones here for 2.44 + 1.38 p&p from a UK supplier:
Thanks David - that's more like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorG3VLF View Post
No, the resistor is there to provide bias to get the input into a conductive region. Anything in the quoted range will do.
Understood - thanks.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 8:26 pm   #24
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

Quote:
Resistor with the values 100 kΩ to 1 MΩ - should this be a variable Resistor?
No, it means anything twixt 100k and 1M. I wouldn't bother with a trimmer 22p on it's own will do.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 2:27 pm   #25
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

After a somewhat lengthy diversion to build a Raspberry Pi Wireless Print Server, now deployed and working, I'm back to looking at the 300Hz strobe.

I carefully followed the design for a Typical crystal oscillator circuit shown in the HEF4060B Product data sheet (page 8) and wired up all the required components on a Breadboard - see attached picture.

Couple of questions though: -

1. Will 4.5V be enough to get the whole thing oscillating?

2. How will I know that it is working at this stage before I go any further?

Thanks in advance...

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Old 10th Feb 2019, 3:05 pm   #26
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

1 Yes.
2 All outputs will measure about half Vdd.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 3:25 pm   #27
TonyDuell
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

If you have a 'scope, logic probe or logic analyser you can check the the outputs are oscillating (the first and last will also let you check the frequency).

Or a piezo buzzer (the passive type, not the type with internal electronics) connected between the '300Hz' output and ground will buzz at, not surprisingly, 300Hz. Now I can't judge pitch at all but even I can tell if it's oscillating.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 5:01 pm   #28
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

For a lower price than the trimmer you can buy an entire crystal oscillator set accurate to within 50 parts per million ( 0.005%) runs on 5v

https://uk.farnell.com/qantek-techno...lator%204.9152

David
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 5:49 pm   #29
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDuell View Post
If you have a 'scope, logic probe or logic analyser you can check the the outputs are oscillating (the first and last will also let you check the frequency).
Using my Topward Digital Function Generator 8112 I'm getting widely fluctuating frequency signals (830Hz to 620Hz) which won't settle down even after allowing the unit to warm up and stabilise - some instability somewhere?

In addition the HEF4060BP started to run very hot - too hot to touch - so there may be something wrong with my Breadboard circuit connections??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
For a lower price than the trimmer you can buy an entire crystal oscillator set accurate to within 50 parts per million ( 0.005%) runs on 5v
I've incorporated a 4.9152 MHz crystal in the circuit I am using from the HEF4060B Product data sheet (page 8) - not sure how the component you provide a link for works?

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Old 10th Feb 2019, 6:01 pm   #30
TonyDuell
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

What have you done with pin 12 of the 4060? It should be connected to 0V (pin 8) I think.

You are not using the Topward generator to feed a signal _into_ the 4060 I trust. That could cause the IC to overheat or damage said IC. You want to just monitor the signals coming from the IC.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 6:27 pm   #31
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

Pin 12 is connected to Pin 8 which goes to GND.

On the Topward I'm using the COUNTER IN connection with the FUNC/COUNT button pressed in which shows the input frequency.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 6:37 pm   #32
TonyDuell
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

OK, that sounds right for pin 12.

Does the IC still overheat if the Topward (counter) is not connected?

You have the oscillator wired as in the datasheet. Pin 12 is grounded. You have a 4.5V battery between ground (pin 8) and pin 16. Are there any other connections to any pins of the IC?
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 7:25 pm   #33
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

I'll check for overheating with the Topward disconnected.

Pin 8 (Vss) and Pin 12 (MR) as detailed above

Pin 10 (RTC oscillator pin) and Pin 11 (RS clock input/oscillator pin) as per datasheet.

Connection from the battery to Pin 16 (Vdd)
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 8:56 pm   #34
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

It's a complete crystal and oscillator circuit in one package with an accuracy spec that encompasses the whole thing. Logic level outputs, so you power it from 5v and feed its output into pin 11 of the 4060. don't fir the rest of your oscillator circuit and leave pin 12 not connected to anything.

Excess heat in a CMOS logic part means something is either running at high frequency or is stuck between logic levels where the thing tries to operate in an analogue way and can waste current from the supply down through two transistors to ground. This makes heat.

I'd suspect spurious oscillation of some sort.

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Old 10th Feb 2019, 9:09 pm   #35
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

It's diffiicult to be sure, even in the enhanced photo of the breadboard below, but the oscillator components don't seem to be connected as per the circuit?

The resistor from pin 11 doesn't appear connected at the left hand end ?

The crystal appears to be connected across the trimmer ?

One end of the cap isn't connected at all?

As for the overheating - the +ve and -ve rails are connected to the opposite labelled busbars. - Not a problem unless you connect the battery as per the labels. That would likely get the chip hot!

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Old 11th Feb 2019, 11:39 am   #36
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

Thanks Trigon - oh dear, it's back to the Remedial Class for me!!!!

I note that "The resistor from pin 11 doesn't appear connected at the left hand end" and "One end of the cap isn't connected at all" - I'm assuming that this is one and the same missing link on the Breadboard?

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"The crystal appears to be connected across the trimmer" - I'll look more closely at this but my understanding(!) is that only two tabs on the trimmer need to be connected - one of the outer tabs and the central tab?

As for the +ve and -ve rails hopefully I've got that right where the red denotes the positive (+) terminal, and black denotes the negative (-) terminal on the battery. I changed this slightly and had the red (+) terminal going straight to Pin 16 (Vdd). Nothing else on the board needs power.

The HEF4060B was running very hot so what are the chances it is fried?
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 1:06 am   #37
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

Quote:
I note that "The resistor from pin 11 doesn't appear connected at the left hand end" and "One end of the cap isn't connected at all" - I'm assuming that this is one and the same missing link on the Breadboard?
Even if linked it doesn't correspond to the circuit - the junction between that resistor and capacitor should also be joined to the crystal.

Quote:
"The crystal appears to be connected across the trimmer" - I'll look more closely at this but my understanding(!) is that only two tabs on the trimmer need to be connected - one of the outer tabs and the central tab?
One wire from each end of the crystal appears to go to some point on the trimmer, presumably not the same point, hence my 'connected across the trimmer'. Note that the crystal is not connected across the trimmer in the circuit diagram...

Quote:
As for the +ve and -ve rails hopefully I've got that right where the red denotes the positive (+) terminal, and black denotes the negative (-) terminal on the battery. I changed this slightly and had the red (+) terminal going straight to Pin 16 (Vdd). Nothing else on the board needs power.
Pin 16 (+V) is pictured connected to a blue '-' rail, and pin 8 (0v) is connected to a red '+' rail, both with red jumpers. As I said it doesn't really matter unless you forget they're swapped and connect the battery to the rails as labeled.

Cheers
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 12:53 pm   #38
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

Thanks again Trigon for taking the time and effort to provide such detailed responses - much appreciated.

Translating circuit diagrams to actual layouts and wiring connections (and vice versa) in various restoration projects was never my strong point! Probably just need more practice but that is sometimes difficult with this hobby which is quite often put on hold for long periods of time due to other priorities.

What I think I'll do is take the old fashioned approach and use some coloured pencils to mock up my circuit on a paper Breadboard template.

I can then Post that here for advice, guidance and entertainment!!!
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 2:49 pm   #39
DonaldStott
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

The HEF4060B is getting hard to find - anyone know a good (UK?) source or a modern equivalent?
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 5:23 pm   #40
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Default Re: Turntable Stroboscope

If you search for 4060 in Google and select shopping there are loads. As you are running at 4.5V even the HC and HCT series will do.
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