UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items

Notices

Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 24th Jun 2022, 5:05 pm   #1
sweepthedog
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: York, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 68
Default American fan in the UK.

Hello

I recently got an old Robbin and myers 10 inch fan from the states, It is art deco and is model number : D10A6-0. It works fine in the UK on a step down transformer at 120V. (UK is 230V and 50Hz)

It turns on and oscillates but makes an almost continous rattling sound and vibrations. So I assume it could be normal or just a unbalanced blade?

Also I understand the US is on 60Hz, Would me operating this fan without any frequency conversion lead to motor damage/overheating or can it be long periods with no issue

I tried to attach a vid of the noise but it won't let me. It sounds like a scraping rattle.
sweepthedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Jun 2022, 6:33 pm   #2
broadgage
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Somerset, UK.
Posts: 2,025
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

If the fan motor is a commutator type then the frequency is not important.

If however the motor is an induction type, then frequency DOES matter. At a lower frequency than intended the motor will draw a greater magnetising current and run hotter.

A lower frequency is generally acceptable if the voltage is reduced in about the same proportion.

110 volts at 50 cycles is better than 120 volts at 50 cycles, though still a bit high. The reduced voltage PARTIALY compensates for the lower frequency.

The noise sounds like worn oscillating mechanism rather than being directly related to voltage or frequency. Or it might simply need lubricating.

Make certain that your voltage converter is a true transformer and not an electronic unit.
broadgage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Jun 2022, 7:09 pm   #3
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 3,693
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

110V at 50 cycles may be okay, but the run capacitor also needs to be increased in value.
Maarten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jun 2022, 7:16 am   #4
sweepthedog
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: York, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 68
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

Thanks guys.
The fan makes the noise even when not oscillating so it could be the motor or gearbox or just unbalanced blades or cage. I have linked a YouTube video which displays the noise. Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

https://youtube.com/shorts/zzh8mAGzFHM?feature=share

It terms of voltage and frequency I was considering getting a UK to Japanese transformer which would create an output voltage of 100V 50HZ.
sweepthedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jun 2022, 9:49 am   #5
McMurdo
Dekatron
 
McMurdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK.
Posts: 4,876
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

that sounds like what I call 'drumming', one of my desk fans does that (and it's a modern one). I suspect end-play in the main shaft bearings casuing the rotor to float about a bit. It sounds like your casing is resonating and adding to it.

Maybe a strip down and lube would help, or try reducing the mains voltage with a variac to see if it stops the floating
__________________
Kevin
McMurdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Jun 2022, 11:01 am   #6
sweepthedog
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: York, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 68
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

Thank you.
I have opened the back up and it looks like this: I have no idea what I'm looking at but it seems well greased. The blades also have a small hole which looks like it could be a screw that has since gone missing?
I'll attach some pics

Also the noise has become more jittery and frequent like its hitting something I've uploaded another video

https://youtu.be/qWGYruBQWC4

I'll try and reduce the voltage on a 100v transformer too
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20220625_114511.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	94.0 KB
ID:	259759   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220625_114516.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	89.7 KB
ID:	259760   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220625_114522.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	82.4 KB
ID:	259761   Click image for larger version

Name:	20220625_115918.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	40.6 KB
ID:	259762  

Last edited by sweepthedog; 25th Jun 2022 at 11:18 am. Reason: Added video
sweepthedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Jun 2022, 5:19 am   #7
FrankB
Heptode
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Olympia, Washington, USA.
Posts: 595
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

Boy that is an oldie!

Check gearbox for grease. Maybe even wash it out and re-lube, looking through the old grease for any possible broken metal bits. (That age they used a gearbox, based on the one similar to that that I have. Likely hi temp dish brake grease would be fine.

Look for worn bearings or a shim gone bad.
Check to see if it has an oscillating function. I had one that rattled like that because it was not fully disengaged.

Bearing wear would be next. I did have one similar and it did have bad bearings. Being unable to find any, and not having a metal lathe at the time, I used shim stock (brass?) at the time, but made sure to lube it every month.

A really out of balance blade would cause a lot of continual vibration. I do not think blade balance is an issue, but you can remove the blade assy. and balance it on the end of a large needle to see if one side is heavier than another, or a blade is bent.

Make sure the blade guard is tightly attached. They can cause some really odd rattles.

Also check the fan to base joint for play.

Collecting old brass fans has become quite a specialized hobby here in the States.
FrankB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Jun 2022, 5:32 am   #8
joebog1
Nonode
 
joebog1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 2,516
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

The missing screw looks to me like an allen key.

Joe
joebog1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Jun 2022, 1:41 pm   #9
sweepthedog
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: York, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 68
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

Thanks guys

Unfortunately I lack experience when it comes to electronics and taking off the back was as far as Ive ever gone with antique fans. Interestingly, the person in the states I bought it from said it ran whisper quiet prior to shipping which makes me think it isnt anything mechanical that's wrong with it, maybe something can come loose during shipping, or the cage is causing these problems?
But again the idea of the electricity differences in the UK comes up if it ran fine in the US and then rattles in the UK.
Does anyone know anyone local to me who could give it a quick once over and see if anything is wrong?
If not, I may have to accept it as a lovely albeit noisy ornament.
I will try the lower voltage idea first though
Cheers
sweepthedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Jun 2022, 2:03 pm   #10
snowman_al
Octode
 
snowman_al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Llandeilo, West Wales, UK.
Posts: 1,092
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

Dumb idea of the day.
Do you have an electric drill? Could you use a rubber sucker on the centre of the fan to drive the fan, and motor, round at a similar speed?
If it is quiet then the mechanicals are very likely okay and the mains frequency is the problem. If it still rattles then there is a mechanical problem.
Just thinking ...
__________________
Never Leave Well Enough Alone...
snowman_al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Jun 2022, 4:17 pm   #11
sweepthedog
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: York, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 68
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

I could try that if I knew how to get the blades off.
I tried meddling with it today and now the blades start turning then stopped after half a second and jam and the motor still makes a noise. Crap. But then I gently bent the blade center and it started turning again. But still makes the noise and vibrates like crazy. I'd say the blades are really unbalanced.

Attached is a video of when it wasn't turning. I don't feel safe running it longer than a minute. It sounds like it's struggling and will eventually slow down.

https://youtu.be/fuVpYttR37o

Last edited by sweepthedog; 26th Jun 2022 at 4:27 pm.
sweepthedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Jun 2022, 4:50 pm   #12
ex 2 Base
Hexode
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Scarborough, North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 439
Default Re: American fan in the UK.

sweepthe dog, I've sent you a PM. Ted
ex 2 Base is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT. The time now is 4:42 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2021, Paul Stenning.