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Old 31st Jul 2021, 6:36 pm   #1
stevie23
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Default Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Hi everyone. I purchased a Vortexion machine a week or so ago ( I believe it to be a series 5) and had time to plug it in today to see what, if any faults it might have. (bit foolhardy but I'm crazy like that. ..) No immediate bangs, thuds or such but after a few minutes I noticed a hissing sound and noticed a smell. Nothing REALLY bad like varnish or burning but after I'd turned it off, unscrewed the amplifier plate from the LHS and plugged back in I saw a steady stream of smoke rising from the power resistor underneath the main transformer (see picture) . Anyone able to help me in diagnosing what the problem might be? I have no schematic or manual for the machine.

Thanks,
Steve.
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 11:46 pm   #2
DMcMahon
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Steve, you let your excitement get the better and did not obey the first rule of vintage fault finding "Don't plug it in and turn it on", many do at times including myself

I have no experience of Vortexion so am wildly guessing. Enlarging the photo it looks like the resistor says 500 something, maybe 500 Ohms.

If you do a search for "Vortexion and schematic" in the "Search this website" at the top of the screen you will find several Vortexion schematics in various threads. Some of these have a 500 Ohm 5 watt resistor connecting the reservoir capacitor to the smoothing or filter capacitor. The resistor and the filter capacitor form a low pass filter to remove the remaining ripple left over by the reservoir capacitor.

So suggest you identify the resistor value and see what it connects to, to see if it is the 500 Ohm referenced above. If so then the fault may be due to a bad reservoir or filter capacitor, which will be can capacitors maybe part of a dual or triple can. If these capacitors are good then it could anything then on the load that is drawing too much current and overheating the resistor. It is 5 watts so may well run pretty warm but not smoking of course.

There are some Vortexion experts on the Forum who will be able to identify the resistor and better advise.

David
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 1:26 pm   #3
stevie23
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Hi David. Yeah I have a Variac that I've been given. Its naked though so needs a box and a meter. I'll make a housing for it soon. Ive trawled thru the searches here and found a schematic for the WVB series 2. Like you say, it shows a 500 ohm 5 W resistor going off to a 32uF cap so I need to get to the underside of the amp and do some meter tests. Should be interesting.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 2:45 pm   #4
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

I have no idea how similar they may or may not be, but I see in one of the Threads there is a WVA Series 5 manual which has a photo showing the top side (with lid moved back) of the amplifier module. This shows the 500 Ohm resistor but there is no sign of any can capacitors so maybe there are large axial capacitors on the underside of the amplifier.

David
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Old 4th Aug 2021, 1:55 pm   #5
stevie23
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

OK, one question I have regarding disassembly so I can get to the components on the underside chassis of the amplifier. How do I remove the amplifier? I have the top grille off but cant see how to remove the main body.
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Old 4th Aug 2021, 2:46 pm   #6
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

One point, from my experience of Vortexion, is that the insulation of the wires into and through the mains transformer shroud often fails - it goes hard and flakes off. This can gove you some 'interesting' displays of a flashy, smoky nature.
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Old 4th Aug 2021, 6:24 pm   #7
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

It's alright. Sussed. Two screws on the case. Front and back. Done. Unplugged the deck adaptor plugs and speaker plug and it lifted out. Now is where it gets interesting...
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Old 4th Aug 2021, 7:19 pm   #8
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

If you get a chance would be good to get a couple of photos showing the amp and the screws in questions etc, it could well help someone else in the future.

David
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 2:06 pm   #9
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Thanks David. The more pics we have of these machines the better. Removing the amplifier is actually quite easy. There are 6 screws in all: 4 on the top amplifier panel section and 2 more at the front and back which secure the chassis to the case. Remove these and the 8 and 12 pin plugs and the amplifier body comes out without too much complaining. Be careful of wiring, especially with the main transformer. I have a series 5 and the transformer wiring has not succumbed to going brittle and disintegrating (is this because its a later model?
I've taken some pics : 1 of the 2 screws in the case (frontwise) and the amplifier circuitry. Blue hunts caps, mustard caps galore.
If the 500 Ohm 5 watt resistor is overheating and smoking, it is connected to the large blue cap in the middle (32uF +32uF ?? )
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 2:42 pm   #10
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Does the circuit diagram I sent you match the amplifier you have there?
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 3:08 pm   #11
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mole42uk View Post
Does the circuit diagram I sent you match the amplifier you have there?
In a word, no. It has 7 valves and they are different from the MK II schematic.

The mk II schematic has these:
1xEL84, 2x EF86, 1x12AT7, 1x6BW6 and 1xGZ30.

Mine has the valve numbers printed on the transformer (see picture).

1xEZ81, 1xEL84, 1x12BH7, 3xEF86, 1xECC85.
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 7:59 pm   #12
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Mustard caps are nearly always very reliable.

David
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 8:16 pm   #13
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

The Vortexion CBL 5 schematic matches your valve count and type. This also shows the 32uF capacitors plus has a second 500 Ohm 5 watt connected.

I have no idea what the difference is between the WVB Series 5 and the CBL 5 but there are Forum posts suggesting that the CBL 5 schematic can be used for the WVB 5.

David
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Old 5th Aug 2021, 8:35 pm   #14
stevie23
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post
Mustard caps are nearly always very reliable.

David
Yep. I think its the blue reservoir / ripple caps (the big blue ones) in particular that might be causing the problem.

Why is there so little information online anywhere about these machines?
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 8:54 am   #15
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

I have several of these machines and the large blue capacitors are a common failure that will cause the resistor to overheat.

The remainder of the circuit is generally very reliable although check the two black capacitors mounted on the side panel next to the mains input socket.
These are connected across the mains and also fail with a bang but the machine continues to function much to the surprise of a customer.
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Old 6th Aug 2021, 3:53 pm   #16
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Look at the various Vortexion schematics these capacitors are shown as 0.01uF/1kV, I assume the 1kV rating then would have been a DC voltage rating. One is shown connected across Live and Neutral of the mains input and the other one connected across Neutral and earth of the mains input.

They are for power line conditioning/cleaning (RFI/EMI interference suppression/filtering).

If they fail open circuit then the unit can run happily without them, but of course then no noise filtering.

Technically if replacing them an X2 rated capacitor should be used for the one across the mains and a Y2 for the neutral to earth one. These should be rated for continuous AC voltage use.

Modern good quality Polypropylene, Ceramic, Polyester of appropriate voltage rating should also suffice, although would not carry the same safety spec.

David
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 2:41 am   #17
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post
The Vortexion CBL 5 schematic matches your valve count and type. This also shows the 32uF capacitors plus has a second 500 Ohm 5 watt connected.

I have no idea what the difference is between the WVB Series 5 and the CBL 5 but there are Forum posts suggesting that the CBL 5 schematic can be used for the WVB 5.

David
The difference is Mono (WVB) and Stereo (CBL) tape machines. There is a WVC as well rare but also Stereo, you see it it Hifi News in the ads and in other audio related magazines.
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 2:52 am   #18
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Does this help?
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 10:51 am   #19
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie342000 View Post
Does this help?
Oh! Its a MK III.Thanks. Not seen this schematic before. Mine is a MkVI I believe, it could be a mk V. The III is useful although its valves are different and the circuit differs from the MK VI. I see you have a manual as well ??
Would you have a digital copy?
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 11:26 am   #20
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Default Re: Vortexion WVB smoking component..

I find the Series/Mk. designations confusing, are they the same thing ? i.e. is a Mk. III the same as a Series 3, is a Series 5 the same as a Mk. 5 or is the Mk. just referring to the amplifier version.

David
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