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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 1st Aug 2021, 8:24 pm   #41
DMcMahon
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Forgot to mention that earlier had to disconnect the tape counter drive belt because in fast wind the counter intermittently was making a horrible loud ticking sound, sounding as if the counter was maybe sticking.

Will first try giving it a good clean, then if the same will try some lubrication. This co-incidently links into my lubricating plastic gears Thread. Normally R2R manufacturers do not mention lubricating tape counters but I have found sometimes it can help with problem counters.

David
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 4:45 pm   #42
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Removed tape counter and gave it a good clean, still to refit and test.

With a large magnifier thoroughly inspected the PCB tracks and soldered connections, nothing obvious untoward seen, for good measure resoldered the valve base pins for the ECL86.

Did various general cleaning especially the top plate of the tape deck chassis which was pretty grubby. Cleaned heads and tape path.

Retested the hum signal in straight through amplifier mode, still working OK.

Tape playback works OK, maybe did not sound as good as I thought it should do, but it was music I did not recognise or like, so may sound better with music I know.

Erase works OK and so does the Automatic Stop.

There is an intermittent annoying loud squeak in Playback, think it is coming from the Take Up spool carrier.

Been wondering what the part is in the photo. Thought maybe it is to support the chassis (when out of its case) to stop the motor impeller hitting the floor but it would be very borderline plus it is very flimsy and when weight supported by it, it tends to flex over.

Main things still to do:-

1. Test recording.
2. Retest tape counter.
3. Investigate playback squeak.
4. Investigate Fast Forward wind that struggles when Take Up spool is heaving loaded with tape.
5. Obtain and fit replacement DIN socket for the external speaker connection.
6. Repair damaged Perspex top panel.
7. Repair top lid where front Perspex piece needs refitting.
8. Repair broken motor fan impeller blades.

David
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 7:33 pm   #43
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post

Been wondering what the part is in the photo. Thought maybe it is to support the chassis (when out of its case) to stop the motor impeller hitting the floor but it would be very borderline plus it is very flimsy and when weight supported by it, it tends to flex over.

David
Believe I have found out what this part was for.

In a very useful document on production changes for some of this series that dazzlevision produced, it states that later models were fitted with a removable plastic cabinet bottom cover, had a long black metal supporting rod (with a rubber end cap) fitted to the chassis, to prevent the bottom cover from fouling the motor fan.

In mine there is no plastic bottom cover, whether it is missing or was not fitted I do not know.

David
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 7:34 pm   #44
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post
Been wondering what the part is in the photo. Thought maybe it is to support the chassis (when out of its case) to stop the motor impeller hitting the floor but it would be very borderline plus it is very flimsy and when weight supported by it, it tends to flex over.
David
That is to stop the base of the cabinet from fouling the fan, should it be subject to undue compression (i.e. placed on an uneven surface.

blackened still rod with its rubber cushioning pad was only fitted to later models with a removable flat plastic base, whereas in the earlier models, the base was an integral part of the cabinet (plywood) and was (IIRC) concave, when looking from the top, thereby rendering the metal spacer and cushion unnecessary. Perhaps the deck and electronics has been swapped over at some point in time, or maybe just a standardised production change?
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 7:35 pm   #45
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post

Been wondering what the part is in the photo. Thought maybe it is to support the chassis (when out of its case) to stop the motor impeller hitting the floor but it would be very borderline plus it is very flimsy and when weight supported by it, it tends to flex over.

David
Believe I have found out what this part was for.

In a very useful document on production changes for some of this series that dazzlevision produced, it states that later models were fitted with a removable plastic cabinet bottom cover, had a long black metal supporting rod (with a rubber end cap) fitted to the chassis, to prevent the bottom cover from fouling the motor fan.

In mine there is no plastic bottom cover, whether it is missing or was not fitted I do not know.

David
The Ferguson 3216 (IIRC) has a flat wooden base, which is an integral part of the cabinet. There is a plastic part (grille, for airflow) directly under the motor's cooling fan.
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 7:44 pm   #46
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post

Tape playback works OK, maybe did not sound as good as I thought it should do, but it was music I did not recognise or like, so may sound better with music I know.



Main things still to do:-


4. Investigate Fast Forward wind that struggles when Take Up spool is heaving loaded with tape.

8. Repair broken motor fan impeller blades.

David
HAVING OWNED A FERGUSON 3230 FROM NEW, I CAN SAY THAT THESE RECORDERS DO PRODUCE A VERY GOOD QUALITY OF PLAYBACK SOUND, ESPECIALLY ON 7.5ips (GIVEN A RECORDING MADE FROM A SUITABLE SOURCE, SUCH AS VHF/FM RADIO OR TV SOUND - DIRECTLY CONNECTED). OBVIOUSLY, THE INTERNAL SPEAKER HAS ITS LIMITATIONS.

4. I'D CLEAN THE DRIVING SURFACES OF THE FFWD IDLER WHEEL AND TAKE UP TURNTABLE. IF THAT DOESN'T DO THE TRICK, I'D ALSO REMOVE THE MOTOR'S PULLEY AND SPRING ASSEMBLY AND CLEAN ALL THE COMPONENTS, INCLUDING FIBRE WASHERS. THE DESIGN FEATURES A "SLIPPING CLUTCH" ACTION.

8. IF YOU SEND ME YOUR ADDRESS BY PM, I HAVE SOME GOOD SPARES, SO I CAN POST YOU ONE.
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 8:42 pm   #47
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Here is a photo of the later type of all plastic and screw on bottom cover that was fitted to Thorn group DC43 (mono) and DC432 (stereo) tape recorder models.

The small hole at the top is an alternative entry/exit point for the mains lead/screened leads - for vertical operation. It was not fitted on the later DC43 mono models, which used this type of bottom cover. It makes access for service a lot quicker, if only access to the underneath is required.
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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 10:03 pm   #48
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post
Been wondering what the part is in the photo. Thought maybe it is to support the chassis (when out of its case) to stop the motor impeller hitting the floor but it would be very borderline plus it is very flimsy and when weight supported by it, it tends to flex over.
David
That is to stop the base of the cabinet from fouling the fan, should it be subject to undue compression (i.e. placed on an uneven surface.

blackened still rod with its rubber cushioning pad was only fitted to later models with a removable flat plastic base, whereas in the earlier models, the base was an integral part of the cabinet (plywood) and was (IIRC) concave, when looking from the top, thereby rendering the metal spacer and cushion unnecessary. Perhaps the deck and electronics has been swapped over at some point in time, or maybe just a standardised production change?
Ok that is clear, I had assumed it was some sort of extra internal cover. The rod is not stiff as such, it is plastic and fairly floppy if pressed or weight put on it, as not a solid fixing at its base.

David

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Old 2nd Aug 2021, 10:21 pm   #49
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post

Main things still to do:-

4. Investigate Fast Forward wind that struggles when Take Up spool is heavily loaded with tape.

David
4. I'D CLEAN THE DRIVING SURFACES OF THE FFWD IDLER WHEEL AND TAKE UP TURNTABLE. IF THAT DOESN'T DO THE TRICK, I'D ALSO REMOVE THE MOTOR'S PULLEY AND SPRING ASSEMBLY AND CLEAN ALL THE COMPONENTS, INCLUDING FIBRE WASHERS. THE DESIGN FEATURES A "SLIPPING CLUTCH" ACTION.
Have cleaned the idler tonight. Also removed both spool carriers to give them a good clean up as pretty dirty and also clean underneath them, all much easier to do with them removed. Still to refit and retest. Will now also do the motor pulley assembly, the motor pulley itself was previously cleaned in-situ when motor assembly was out for the drive wheel issue.

David
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Old 3rd Aug 2021, 8:23 pm   #50
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Talking Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

After cleaning/refitting the fast forward drive idler and the spool carriers (turntables) now fast forward wind is working very well end to end, a dramatic change. Have not touched the motor pulley/spring assembly.

All testing up to now has been with 5" and 5 3/4" tapes/spools (5 3/4" when FFD wind was problematic) now need to recheck at 7".

David
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Old 4th Aug 2021, 4:21 pm   #51
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Fast wind in both directions works well on 7", the recorded music on this 7" tape (Abba and German pop/rock) sounded very good quality wise.

David
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Old 8th Aug 2021, 2:32 pm   #52
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Refitted cleaned tape counter, running smoothly and now not making a noise.

Repaired top wooden lid where front Perspex piece had fallen out, one side wooden piece had to be deconstructed before repairing as glued corner joint was breaking apart.

Main things still to do:-

1. Test recording.
2. Investigate playback squeak.
3. Obtain and fit replacement DIN socket for the external speaker connection.
4. Repair damaged Perspex top panel.
5. Repair broken motor fan impeller blades.

David
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 11:49 am   #53
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

As expected repairing the broken Perspex top panel was not easy, had a real job pressing the broken section back into line. Put some super glue along one side of the broken edge and even though masked off the top side with tape, glue still managed to come through onto the top side and removing it has messed up the panel, although hidden when spool is fitted.

The intermittent annoying mechanical squeak when playing seems to have gone away, main job left is to check out recording.

Did not notice it on 5 3/4" but now on 7" can see that the Take Up spool is sitting low with result that the top edge of the tape is rubbing on top underside of the take up spool. Do not think there is any actual adjustment for tape/spool height, need to check further.

David
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 11:54 am   #54
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Have you tried another take-up spool, as some are/become distorted? Otherwise, perhaps the turntable spindle was bent due to rough handling by the courier (which the other damage was due to)…?
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 11:59 am   #55
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

That top is probably ABS, which superglue melts, as you have found out. I found out the hard way, too. You could try some Brasso on those marks if they are not too deep. It works well, just use a soft cloth to apply it and polish it off again. If that gets rid of the worst, then some normal furniture polish like Mr. Sheen should restore a nice shine.

Mark.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 8:16 pm   #56
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Tried several other 7" spools both on on Supply and Take Up, all very similar with the tape running high on the Take Up spool either touching or virtually touching the top underside edge of the spool. Maybe the best was a Sony spool that looked unused/new.

The Supply spool tape was also not very central in the spool but not touching the spool edge.

Same results when rechecked with 5 3/4" spools.

With a straight edge along the top of both spools could not really see a height difference in the spools and by measuring down to the deck plate could not easily measure a height difference.

Had a close look at the right tape guide (which also is the EOT sensor post) but no height adjustment possible. Tried fitting a thinner washer to the the EOT post which could allow the tape to run a fraction lower but it did not do much so refitted the original washer (thinner washer also did not fit well as slightly different size centre hole).

Fitted a felt/material washer to the underside of the Take Up turntable (between the turntable and the fibre washer that sits on the deck plate) to raise up the turntable a little. There is not a lot of height adjustment possibility doing this as if the turntable is lifted too high then when the retaining circlip is fitted the turntable could be too tight to rotate.

Somewhat surprisingly this has centralised the tape in the Take Up spool nicely and Play/Fast wind still work well.

Did quick recording test using a small Grundig microphone wired with 3 pin DIN connected to the Radio input DIN connector.

The microphone connector on the 4216 (on the top panel) is one of those 4 pin DIN type connectors where 2 of the pins are connected to a normally closed switch (pins 2 and 4 in the connector body). The normally closed switch feeds the input signals from the Radio and PU input sockets through to the Record amplifier via the PB/Record switch.

When used with the correct microphone which has a 4 pin DIN plug with an insulated peg, this opens the normally closed switch when microphone is plugged in.

I have a microphone with the 4 pin DIN but it does not have the switch activating peg.

First attempt at microphone recording failed, no record signal on the record level meter and nothing recorded when recording played back. Found that the normally closed switch in the 4 pin microphone connector was open circuit, fixed that by gently tweaking the 2 pin contacts.

Microphone recording now works well but there is no record signal on the record level meter, looks like the meter may be dead but have not yet checked the connections to it.

David
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 8:30 pm   #57
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Microphone recording now works well but there is no record signal on the record level meter, looks like the meter may be dead but have not yet checked the connections to it.
David
If your meter is a "Smiths" branded type, then it will almost certainly be faulty. I replaced one on my Ferguson 3214 earlier today (with a German "Bertram" type - salvaged from a scrap machine).

The coil resistance of the Smiths meter is approximately 1070 Ohms, but it's usually the bearings/coil supports that fail.

I have a few of the original "Thorn" branded crystal microphones that these machines were supplied with, but they all have low output, as you might expect (as found with crystal pickup cartridges).
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 8:31 pm   #58
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

[QUOTE=dazzlevision;1398484]Perhaps the turntable spindle was bent due to rough handling by the courier, /QUOTE]

The Take Up turntable spindle is not obviously bent or twisted etc.

David
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 8:38 pm   #59
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

In Post 30 I said the meter is Bertram.

David
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 8:57 pm   #60
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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In Post 30 I said the meter is Bertram.

David
That's the problem with long threads - remembering what has gone before, or a long recap!
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