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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 29th Jul 2021, 8:23 pm   #21
DMcMahon
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
The height of the idler wheel is changed by the action of the white Nylon part - the speed change ramp (119) upon the primary arm assembly (119) think you meant (109) which has both the idler wheel and its swivel bracket connected to it. The primary arm assembly can move up and down and be swing out and back, so as to temporarily disengage the motor pulley drive to the capstan flywheel.

When the speed change knob is altered, the "corrugated" side of 119 briefly "flips" the idler wheel out of engagement with the motor pulley and capstan flywheel. At the same time, the ramp side of 119 moves the primary arm assembly up or down (as required) this is the bit I am still struggling to see how so as to align itself with the desired motor pulley speed step. When the speed change knob gets to the selected speed position, the idler wheel is once again engaged.

The metal rod connects item 119 to the record/playback speed frequency correction rotary wafer switch on the PCB.
Yes

Not yet had time to have another look.

David
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Old 29th Jul 2021, 9:15 pm   #22
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Just has another quick look, still cannot get the motor assembly to go in without fouling.

Am happy that the speed change mechanism itself is all good, its nylon peg moves in the metal arc and the rotary wafer switch is operated all OK etc.

But I can see no sign of any contact between corrugated side of the ramp with the primary arm assembly and hence no lift of the black rod, the attached photo is one example, I have tried repositioning the parts but cannot get any real contact ?

When I first removed the recorder from its case I found this (photo 2) 10mm diameter small black metal piece in the bottom of the case, so far I cannot find a home for it, it generally reminds me of something ?

David
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Old 29th Jul 2021, 9:24 pm   #23
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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But I can see no sign of any contact between corrugated side of the ramp with the primary arm assembly and hence no lift of the black rod.

David
And also no contact with the ramp side of the speed change ramp.

David
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 7:27 am   #24
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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When I first removed the recorder from its case I found this (photo 2) 10mm diameter small black metal piece in the bottom of the case, so far I cannot find a home for it, it generally reminds me of something ?

David
It's a collar for one of the control knobs. On this series of DC43 & DC432 tape recorders, it usually falls off the speed selector knob when it is pulled off the shaft it fits onto.
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 7:35 am   #25
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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But I can see no sign of any contact between corrugated side of the ramp with the primary arm assembly and hence no lift of the black rod.

David
And also no contact with the ramp side of the speed change ramp.

David
Referring to the third photo in post 3, surely the short projection of the die cast (grey) metal part of the primary arm assembly (109) should rest on top of the stepped part of the speed change ramp (119)? This would allow the primary arm assembly to move up and down, as the speed selector knob is operated. Compare your part 109 with the one in my earlier photo in post 3 - has the die cast part moved along the blackened steel rod, perhaps as a result of the transit damage? Is the long coil spring that fits between the narrower diameter part of the blackened steel rod and the motor sub-chassis plate fitted (middle photo, post 11)?

I should have a complete and working spare chassis with electronics for these DC43 models and will take the rear sockets mounting panel off, so I can see exactly how the speed change mechanism works and take some photos.
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 8:36 am   #26
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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But I can see no sign of any contact between corrugated side of the ramp with the primary arm assembly and hence no lift of the black rod.

David
And also no contact with the ramp side of the speed change ramp.

David
Referring to the third photo in post 3, surely the short projection of the die cast (grey) metal part of the primary arm assembly (109) should rest on top of the stepped part of the speed change ramp (119)? I was thinking this but it is too low down This would allow the primary arm assembly to move up and down, as the speed selector knob is operated. Compare your part 109 with the one in my earlier photo in post 3 - has the die cast part moved along the blackened steel rod, perhaps as a result of the transit damage? I think it almost certainly has, hopefully you have hit the nail on the head Is the long coil spring that fits between the narrower diameter part of the blackened steel rod and the motor sub-chassis plate fitted (middle photo, post 11)? Yes the spring is fitted.

I should have a complete and working spare chassis with electronics for these DC43 models and will take the rear sockets mounting panel off, so I can see exactly how the speed change mechanism works and take some photos. I was thinking of doing this myself to see it all better. Don't waste your time doing this unless you have the time, let me see if I can adjust the height of the die cast grey metal part first.
David
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 9:24 am   #27
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

After another quick look I think I have discovered the issue is due to my silly mistake.

In the photo in Post 17 I have been trying to fit the motor in that position. I now realise that if the motor did go in in that position that the drive wheel could not make contact with the flywheel, i.e. I was pulling the drive wheel downwards towards the connector panel but it needs to be pushed upwards away from the connector panel.

With the drive wheel pushed upwards I can get the drive wheel to make contact with the flywheel and then the end of the die cast grey piece does sit on top of the sloping section of the speed ramp and moves up and down the ramp with the speed changed.

So just need to refit the motor and test it all, feeling confident now that should be OK, hopefully not famous last words

David
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 10:34 am   #28
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
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Originally Posted by DMcMahon View Post
When I first removed the recorder from its case I found this (photo 2) 10mm diameter small black metal piece in the bottom of the case, so far I cannot find a home for it, it generally reminds me of something ?

David
It's a collar for one of the control knobs. On this series of DC43 & DC432 tape recorders, it usually falls off the speed selector knob when it is pulled off the shaft it fits onto.
Thank you, will check out the speed control knob and other controls, this was what was in my memory but could not recall it.

David
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Old 30th Jul 2021, 12:06 pm   #29
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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After another quick look I think I have discovered the issue is due to my silly mistake.

In the photo in Post 17 I have been trying to fit the motor in that position. I now realise that if the motor did go in in that position that the drive wheel could not make contact with the flywheel, i.e. I was pulling the drive wheel downwards towards the connector panel but it needs to be pushed upwards away from the connector panel.

With the drive wheel pushed upwards I can get the drive wheel to make contact with the flywheel and then the end of the die cast grey piece does sit on top of the sloping section of the speed ramp and moves up and down the ramp with the speed changed.

So just need to refit the motor and test it all, feeling confident now that should be OK, hopefully not famous last words

David
I'm glad you have resolved the problem.
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 4:39 pm   #30
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Good news - after refitting the motor now have all 3 speeds playing mechanically.

Actually had to refit the motor 3 times as on first and second attempts the left hand motor resilient mount (looks like a cable grommet) came out of its mounting hole and could not get it to go back in without removing the motor assembly first.

Not so good news - no sound at all on Playback, touching the PB head wires also gives no sound, one of the wires broke off while doing this. Will clean PB/Record switch but not confident that is the issue.

Record Level/VU meter is Bertram of Germany.

As recommended checked out C7 (phase correction across output transformer primary) and C23 (record equalisation) both should be 0.003uF (3,000pF) with C7 being 300VAC rated.

C23 measured high at 5,200pF and on 500 megger was 20Mohm so pretty leaky, it was brown Hunts rated at 350VAC. C7 also measured high at around 5,300pF, it was 350VDC rated (manual states 120V) and only 3MOhms on megger and was a grey Dubilier.

Had no 3,000pF capacitors so used a NOS 3,300pF 350VDC for C7 and a new 0.0047uF (4,700pF) 630VDC polypropylene for C23. Not sure of the AC voltage spec of the Polypropylene C23 but as it is film and 630VDC it should be OK. I will look out for some 3,000pF capacitors.

The mystery black part did belong on the Speed change control knob.

David
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 4:50 pm   #31
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Not so good news - no sound at all on Playback, touching the PB head wires also gives no sound, one of the wires broke off while doing this. Will clean PB/Record switch but not confident that is the issue.
David
Have you tried simply pressing the record key, which then makes the circuitry a straightforward audio amplifier (as there is a separate bias oscillator (ECC82), the ECL86 stage is till operating as it does in playback mode.

So, with the volume control set to maximum, the tone control fully anticlockwise (maximum treble), the two input level controls set to maximum and the slowest tape speed selected, you should get a goodly "hiss" and probably a bit of background hum from the speaker. If you stick a very small screwdriver tip or piece of bare wire into the "Radio" input DIN socket, pin 1, you'll get plenty of hum and a good deflection on the record level meter.

Is the loudspeaker connected?

Make sure one track selector pushbutton is depressed.

Have you got HT on the pentode anode of the ECL86?
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 7:13 pm   #32
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Not so good news - no sound at all on Playback, touching the PB head wires also gives no sound, one of the wires broke off while doing this. Will clean PB/Record switch but not confident that is the issue.
David
Have you tried simply pressing the record key, which then makes the circuitry a straightforward audio amplifier (as there is a separate bias oscillator (ECC82), the ECL86 stage is till operating as it does in playback mode. No will try
So, with the volume control set to maximum, the tone control fully anticlockwise (maximum treble), the two input level controls set to maximum and the slowest tape speed selected, you should get a goodly "hiss" and probably a bit of background hum from the speaker. If you stick a very small screwdriver tip or piece of bare wire into the "Radio" input DIN socket, pin 1, you'll get plenty of hum and a good deflection on the record level meter. Will try
Is the loudspeaker connected? Yes

Make sure one track selector pushbutton is depressed. Yes have done

Have you got HT on the pentode anode of the ECL86?
Did have at Post 2 but need to recheck.

Thank you for all the good inputs. Need to fix a broken wire on one of the DINs.
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 8:21 pm   #33
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

The broken wire was output at pin 3 Radio DIN.

As before with tape playback the straightforward amplifier test with the record button pressed etc gives total silence.

Will recheck the valve voltages etc, it must be something fairly simple.

David
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 8:34 pm   #34
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

And no deflection on the record level meter.

David
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 10:07 pm   #35
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

A quick check of the HT and valve electrode voltages, all look basically OK. All valves still fitted and heaters lighting up.

Cleaned the PB/Record switch with no change.

Tried another known good tape with recordings but still no playback heard at all. Checked that the loudspeaker is not open circuit.

Think it is time to get the scope out to see why the music/hum/hiss signals are not reaching the loudspeaker.

When I first removed the unit from the case found a broken piece off the motor fan impeller and later a second impeller blade piece broke off, will glue these back on later on when other things are progressed.

David
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 11:10 am   #36
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

If there is absolutely no residual hum (or other "noise" coming from the loudspeaker when in playback or the record key is down - as I mentioned in a recent post), then I would be looking at the wiring to the external speaker DIN socket on the rear panel, in case there is a dis in the wiring/DIN socket feed to the internal speaker, from the AOPT.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 12:43 pm   #37
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Good call, the normally closed switch in the loudspeaker DIN socket is open circuit, so the output transformer was not connected through to the internal loudspeaker.

Tried plugging in/removing a few times a 2 pin DIN plug to see if the switch would toggle closed but no good, also no good giving it a good tap. So have moved the loudspeaker wire at the DIN socket to the other pin where the output transformer connects so as to have permanent connection.

So while powered up before it was running with no load on the output transformer.

But still zero audible sound. Output transformer windings measure good.

The speaker makes the characteristic sound when AVO resistance checked both at the speaker and at the output transformer secondary winding.

Don't think it is a related issue but bearing in mind from Post 2 that the main HT voltage is well low.

Need to dig out the scope and see if any signal present anywhere, finding time is the biggish problem at the moment.

David
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 5:36 pm   #38
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Using scope signal traced an induced hum signal in straight-through amplifier mode by touching pin 1 of the radio DIN using my finger. Got good strong hum signal all the way through the first 2 valves and to the control grid of the ECL86 output Triode Pentode (still no audible sound).

No signal seen on the Record Level meter.

Even though good signal at the grid there was no signal at the anode. Rechecked everything around the valve with nothing else found untoward and was starting to think that the valve could be dead which I thought very unlikely. Removed the valve and checked for no broken pins & that the pins were clean, also visually inspected the valve socket socket pins which as far as I coud tell looked OK.

Refitted the valve and after switching back on low and behold had sound with the hum test. Still no signal on the Record Level meter.

Do not like these sort of fixes where nothing actually has been done to fix the fault, I would imagine that this fault will return sooner or later.

Not yet tried tape playback.

David
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 6:36 pm   #39
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

Did you get a hum signal right up to the g1 of the ECL86’s pentode section? If you did, then I’d suspect a poorly soldered joint in the area.

I’d rework the joints at the ECL86 valve holder and check the wires to the solder terminals that connect HT and the ECL86's pentode anode to the AOPT.

When I refurbish these DC43 tape deck models, I always take a (magnified) look at the soldered joints on the PCB and the solder tags, and rework any that look suspect (i.e. the solder never flowed/wetted the component properly when it went through the factory’s flow soldering bath).

Also look for hairline cracks in the relevant copper tracks.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 8:06 pm   #40
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Default Re: Ferguson 3216 Reel to Reel Check Out

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Did you get a hum signal right up to the g1 of the ECL86’s pentode section? Yes, I should have made that clearer above, good hum signal at the second stage G1 control grid of the ECL86, i.e. the Pentode, If you did, then I’d suspect a poorly soldered joint in the area. Yes agree that most likely, a quick perusal at the time nothing obvious suspect seen.

I’d rework the joints at the ECL86 valve holder and check the wires to the solder terminals that connect HT and the ECL86's pentode anode to the AOPT. Will check out.

When I refurbish these DC43 tape deck models, I always take a (magnified) look at the soldered joints on the PCB and the solder tags, and rework any that look suspect (i.e. the solder never flowed/wetted the component properly when it went through the factory’s flow soldering bath). I have not done it yet, but often do check under a strong magnifier, surprising sometimes that a joint that looks good to the eye can look dreadful under a strong magnifier.

Also look for hairline cracks in the relevant copper tracks.
Will do

David
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