A "Credenda" electric fire

[Cathovisor]

Having a love of properly vintage electric fires, I thought I'd share a recent restoration.

It's branded as a "Credenda" - which was the forerunner of Creda and it was made in Tipton, Staffs. Given its age - circa 1912, I reckon - I wanted it to be as close to original condition, so definitely no three core mains leads in PVC here!

It needed a lot of work as there were a lot of rusted chips in the enamel so I mixed up some grey and green enamel paints to nearly the right colour and touched the chips up. Inside it was pretty rusty but I couldn't really get my arm up it to sort that out so it has remained that way.

The switch and the terminal block were dismantled and cleaned: note the beads to insulate the wires - this is original.



Once this was done and the elements checked for continuity, I managed to source some period-appropriate heavy twisted twin flex that's easily good for ten amps and after a bit of searching, an equally appropriate period mains plug. Connected it all together, did a quick check once again and then plugged in. I've since cleaned up the pins of the plug a bit.



It's been in use during the few sudden cold snaps we've had and does a lovely job of keeping the front room warm, I can tell you A cheery glow from the elements.



Next I think will be the 1920 Belling with rotary switches for element control - but that's a rather boring black fire. This at least matches the soft furnishings in the front room.

[bionicmerlin]

If it was mine I wouldn’t be happy without a earth on it.
What we used to is unwind a single strand of twisted flex and wrap it round the 2core . to make it 3 core. Then slide some green and yellow sleeving over the end in the plug top and appliance so it’s obvious it’s a earth wire. Be careful with that plug some of them were asbestos.
That’s just my opinion and not intended to pick fault.
It’s a very nice heater . I have never seen one before. Andy

[its ur aerial]

A loverly fire, a real classic, but as Andy has mentioned, I would personally make sure it was Earthed correctly.
I would also be very surprised if the mains Flex fitted is original from 1912.
You can buy retro type 3 core fabric covered flex, although, strictly speaking, fitted to a heating appliance, it should also be of the heat resistant type 309Y, compliant with BS EN 50525.
Ken, G6HZG.

[Cathovisor]

Originally Posted by its ur aerial

A loverly fire, a real classic, but as Andy has mentioned, I would personally make sure it was Earthed correctly.
I would also be very surprised if the mains Flex fitted is original from 1912.
You can buy retro type 3 core fabric covered flex, although, strictly speaking, fitted to a heating appliance, it should also be of the heat resistant type 309Y, compliant with BS EN 50525.
Ken, G6HZG.

Go back and read my post properly.

"I managed to source some period-appropriate heavy twisted twin flex that's easily good for ten amps and after a bit of searching, an equally appropriate period mains plug"

I'd also like to know what insulation is likely to fail on that fire to cause an earth fault?

[broadgage]

I agree that it would be better if earthed. Reasonably appropriate 3 core twisted mains flex can be found.
I see at least two reasonably foreseeable faults that, in the absence of an earth connection, could render the case live.
Firstly the accidental spillage of tea, soup, or the like into the heater could result in a lethal leakage current.
Secondly, impact damage could break a ceramic insulator and render the case live.

These risks were no doubt considered acceptable back in the day hen the appliance was new, but not these days.

If you decide not to earth the heater, please ensure that a working RCD is used.

[Radio Wrangler]

While period accuracy is nice, should the worst happen, coroners are likely to apply current expectations of safety, especially as someone has worked on it recently.

One guide to handling this risk is to ask yourself what you could offer in your defence if the worst did happen, and what you would retrospectively wish you'd done. Without a time machine, now is the time you will have needed to have done it. (English tenses for activities involving time machines are, em, problematic)

It's an amazing looking fire. I could imagine goth shops or set-dressers fighting to get one

David

[Cathovisor]

Well, as it is for my usage only and I don't intend to sell it, I don't see a problem? I am also yet to find a current supplier of 1.0mm2 3-core twisted flex. It all seems to be for lighting use so only 0.5mm2.

If memory serves, were I to go down the somewhat paranoid (IMO) route of earthing it, by doing so I have converted it from a Class 0 appliance to Class 1, at which point it would need a rigorous test and acceptance to current standards which it would fail, because of the loss of "grandfather rights". I believe similar applies to record players which have additional earthing added.

I believe @sideband is knowledgeable on this subject?

[broadgage]

Adding an earth connection is in my view comparable to fitting smoke detectors to a home previously lacking same.
A worthwhile improvement, that does not require any form of inspection or certification.
Possibly different if SALE is contemplated, but not for your own use.

[Cathovisor]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

It's an amazing looking fire. I could imagine goth shops or set-dressers fighting to get one

I'd be more worried about steampunks/upcyclers turning it into an LED "mood light" with Bluetooth control

[Radio Wrangler]

The whole area is a minefield.

There are catch-all phrases in most laws. You don't get to interpret what things like 'all reasonable precautions' means. You can still be held liable for the decision to use it whatever has or hasn't been done to it. If you are the only person who knows its condition, you become seen as the default responsible person.

David

Igor! Launch the kite! We're going to run the electric fire this evening.

[Cathovisor]

I would venture to suggest it is no less safe than a table lamp with a missing bulb and an inaccessible plug! Just look at the various fires turned into "mood lights" (Belling Champions seem favourite for this); I have a Belling "Cubic" that was shonkily modified as such and yet it was freely offered for sale. I've since turned it back into an electric fire.

Does anyone bat an eyelid over the metal grille on the front of a DAC90A?

One thing I will say about the Credenda is that it is well-guarded...

[emeritus]

Interesting that it uses a spiral resistance wire in a ceramic channel. The contemporary radiant heaters from GEC all used multiple 250W tubular carbon filament lamps in their radiant heaters. Multiple 500W black heat tubular elements were used in their larger convectors.

The attached are pages from the 1911 catalogue showing some of their large contemporary range of such heaters.

[Cathovisor]

Originally Posted by emeritus

Interesting that it uses a spiral resistance wire in a ceramic channel. The contemporary radiant heaters from GEC all used multiple 250W tubular carbon filament lamps in their radiant heaters.

As in Dowsing Tubes?

I now want an Aeneas convector...

[mark_in_manc]

Originally Posted by Cathovisor

I now want an Aeneas convector...

That's a powerful product catalogue, still able to provoke ownership desire 112 years later

Surprising, to me, how such a complex casting doesn't cost more than the top-end prices for the other designs with much simpler casings. Perhaps this is down to the ubiquity of foundry work and cast iron as a material, at the time. Making the pattern can't have been cheap!

[Sideband]

Originally Posted by Cathovisor

I believe @sideband is knowledgeable on this subject?

Yes in my usual role of Safety Testing. Personally I think it should be left as-is without an earth and I'm not going to get involved in any lengthy debates about the possible pros and cons of earthing what was originally a non-earthed appliance and how safe it may or may not make it!

Mike, I will PM you.

[Station X]

Let's have no more discussion about safety and earthing in this thread please.

[Ed_Dinning]

Hi Folks, plenty of ceramic "fish bone" insulators here if anyone is in need of some.

Ed

[ex 2 Base]

Ay up Ed, we knew them as fish spine beads. I also have box full of different diameters beads, used to plenty in old cookers. Ted