UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Amateur and Military Radio

Notices

Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th Jan 2015, 12:34 pm   #1
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
Default OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

[Moderators: please relocate this if you think it's inappropriate under this topic]

OFCOM are consulting on changes to legislation relating to electromagnetic interference - see http://ofcom.cmail1.com/t/i-l-skdihd-ptjxity-h

Those of us who have an interest in MF/HF/VHF radio should be interested in this.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 12:43 pm   #2
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Overdue.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 1:55 pm   #3
camtechman
Nonode
 
camtechman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 2,552
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Many thanks for that info.

I wonder if it will address the problem of the interference I get from my next door neighbour's wireless central heating temperature control, which blots out R4 on LW and the short end of MW?
__________________
When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it!
camtechman is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 3:18 pm   #4
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

It does rather read to me that if only a few people complain then it's hard luck. Also 'consultation' these days is 'thanks for the info, we haven't read it and are not going to change our minds anyway'.

Lots of how to contact us (OFCOM) very little on what they are going to do about it.
 
Old 5th Jan 2015, 6:27 pm   #5
Skywave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chard, South Somerset, UK.
Posts: 7,457
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Those of us who have an interest in MF/HF/VHF radio should be interested in this.
And which I am - thanks for sending it in.

Al.
Skywave is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2015, 12:35 pm   #6
G8HQP Dave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 4,872
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

According to the Daily Telegraph this is the result of lobbying by GCHQ, who presumably have been finding that their local/mobile monitoring units have been clobbered by RFI from PLT. Strangely, solar PV invertors are not mentioned in the list of culprits - maybe these are less common in the places where GCHQ does its listening?
G8HQP Dave is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2015, 9:51 pm   #7
Aub
Nonode
 
Aub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nuneaton, Warwickshire, UK.
Posts: 2,033
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Couldn't see any mention of interference from overhead telephone lines carrying broadband. I'm still waiting for the RSGB to tell me what I should do next after their visit to my QTH last April.
__________________
Life's a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all.
Aub is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2015, 12:19 am   #8
Alf
Hexode
 
Alf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 479
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Here's the Daily Telegraph link.
Alf is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2015, 11:18 am   #9
Junk Box Nick
Octode
 
Junk Box Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 1,571
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

From the Telegraph article:

The BBC has previously said DAB radio broadcasts are affected by power line technology.

Interesting, as I had always assumed that part of the argument for DAB was that it was immune from interference.
Junk Box Nick is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2015, 12:11 pm   #10
Nicklyons2
Octode
 
Nicklyons2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,517
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

If I use my DigiBox to TV in full HD (1920X1080) it blots out DAB reception within around 10ft. So it is not just 'obsolescent tech' which is upset by modern digital equipment.

The radiation of broadband 'shash' from overhead phone lines can be horrendous. As I drive around listening to Magic on MW the levels of noise coming from some lines I drive beneath are unbelievable.

I have to smile when I see great tracts of FCC compliance statements on equipments destined for Europe. I don't know how strict these specs are but the manufacturers at least pay 'lip-service' to the FCC; I've never seen anyone bothered about Ofcom compliance (RF transmission spec excluded).
Nicklyons2 is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2015, 2:05 pm   #11
G8HQP Dave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 4,872
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Box Nick
Interesting, as I had always assumed that part of the argument for DAB was that it was immune from interference.
No radio system is immune from interference. Digital systems can be more resilient than similar analogue systems e.g. similar power level, bandwidth. In reality, the extra resilience of digital is used in system planning so lower power levels and increased bandwidth bring the resilience back down to analogue levels. Then you have a choice between analogue graceful degradation and the digital cliff.

These new proposals will give Ofcom a useful new weapon against interference. However, it is an admission that the current EMC regs (which apply to placing items on the market) are almost useless as they rely on self-policing (most Chinese-built electronics simply ignores the regs) and understaffed Trading Standards (who seem more interested in chasing fake designer brands).
G8HQP Dave is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2015, 3:49 pm   #12
Junk Box Nick
Octode
 
Junk Box Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 1,571
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Of course, I should have written ...generally immune from interference.

I don't know what my next door neighbour uses but commencing anytime during the day until I assume what is their bedtime (usually around midnight) I get such a horrible square wave buzz noise radiating from the mains wiring that 'traditional' listening on AM using a mains powered set is impossible for all but the strongest signals (Droitwich 15 miles away).

Walking around with a transistor set it only took the most basic DF work to discover that it was emanating from next door. Put the set next to the light switch in my lounge and it goes into spasm!

It is possible to listen to MW and LW when this racket is going on but then I have to use battery powered sets so that there is no electrical connection to the mains and positioned well away from any mains wiring. Curiously, the best position in my workroom is inches from where the phone line carrying DSL broadband and ethernet cables pass. The couple of computers and laser printer, etc., that are in the room have no effect and I can happily listen to BBC Hereford & Worcester's 20w Tx on 738 25 miles away...

As an inactive amateur licence holder I have contemplated a return to the bands but don't fancy a hobby in which I can only participate when the rest of the neighbourhood is in bed (though I might cop some rare DX).
Junk Box Nick is offline  
Old 7th Jan 2015, 5:00 pm   #13
G8HQP Dave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 4,872
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Interesting thought: GCHQ won't want to give away where they are listening so they may raise interference complaints for places where they are not listening too. We will all benefit. Ofcom may be able to employ more field engineers, as there may be a new pot of money to draw on.
G8HQP Dave is offline  
Old 8th Jan 2015, 12:16 am   #14
Tyso_Bl
Hexode
 
Tyso_Bl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Magor, Monmouthshire, Wales, UK.
Posts: 436
Default Re: OFCOM consultation on electromagnetic interference.

Following the recent OFCOM consultation about the revised amateur radio licence it looks like another way of shifting their workload and responsibilities around. Does anyone think they're suddenly going to start taking an interest in enforcing EMC regulations? They very well might do, but not by making manufacturers, importers, or retailers of non compliant equipment responsible. From my reading of the consultation papers the burden is going to be shifted to the end users of equipment, whatever it may be, a dimmer switch, or amateur radio station, making it a criminal offence to fail to comply too. Check the definitions of what they consider interference, see how many ways there are of falling foul of that.

It affects those of us with an interest in vintage radio, particularly the transmitting sort as we may find that we will not be permitted to operate as we are now. I'm not trying to argue a case for sloppy operating practices. The new conditions which appear to be making it in to the amateur licence state "non-interference with ANY electronic equipment" . I don't think that is going to apply to next doors SMPS wiping out our HF reception, but it sure will apply to for example breakthrough of our signals into any of next doors electronics, no matter what it is.

On the subject of GCHQ & the Military they have every reason to be worried, EM fog is not just something that is an issue local to their receiving stations, EM fog is not confined to the locality of the appliance generating it, milliwatt level EM radiation is capable of travelling via ionospheric reflection and being a nuisance huge distances away, look at the millions of EM foggy devices in use, spread them all over the country, I think fog is a good analogy. If your operating equipment airborne you don't even have the benefit of ground screening.

Stopping the problems at source at the time would have been a better option, I don't have any faith in OFCOM's consultations as they seem to be just a formality than a genuine enquiry in to how "stakeholders" are likely to be affected.
__________________
Adapt, Improvise, Oh Bother.....
Tyso_Bl is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 1:33 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.