Hi From Cathy Lissen/Eveready Kenilworth??

[Herald1360]

Ahh then...... Is the actual external wiring a direct copy of the original? If it is, fine (or at least it should work as well as it ever did) but if it isn't, it looks like a bit of a ripple current vs ESR problem waiting to happen. There will be quite a bit of unwanted series resistance in the ripple current path which is common with the dc path with this sort of wiring layout. Not the best situation from the point of low hum, though a lot of old radios do seem to get away with it.

[cathy_vintage]

It's a copy of the original (lengths, routing in chassis) but using PTFE coated silver plated 1mm² conductor wire instead of the rubber cloth covered stuff. Let's get the thing working first before starting to bother about a bit of mains hum. For all I know it may have U/S IF coils, in which case its probably beyond my capabilities, & therefore destined to be a non-working ornament / play prop. The valve heater wires are twisted pairs so I will replicate that but again, in PTFE wire. It looks like its never been twiddled or messed with so hoping coils are OK.

[julie_m]

Originally Posted by 60 oldjohn

Strangely yours seems to be cut on the diagonal when both my sets the warp or weft runs left to right.

The warp threads go warp and down; the weft threads go weft to right

[cathy_vintage]

Cathy here .. I asked Ash about what to do with the rust patches on the metal chassis. He gets things plated all of the time for bikes in zinc but that would mean a total strip and that's beyond our scope at the moment (probably mean ever ). There are areas on the chassis with patches of surface rust, which Ash says may have been caused by rodents when the thing has been stored for years somewhere.

He gave me this 'Deox Gel' stuff, used on his motorbikes and I tried a small patch, simply brushed on the gel thick, leftit for approximately 1 hour, then removed with a paper towel and washed with some IPA he gave me. It came up pretty good without removing areas of the original, plated (??) finish. Don't worry, I did it all outdoors with my Marigolds on !

Any advice before I go ahead and do the other areas please? Should I refinish it in something to prevent further rust? We are unsure what the original finish was but certainly the finish we have at the moment looks in keeping with the age of the set and the rust would look awful.

Ash has been busy packing the 'junk' he is giving away but once that's out of the way,we can get the rewiring finished and 'power up'. Hopefully by next weekend.

Pics attached 'before and after'.

http://www.bilthamber.com/deox-gel

[paulsherwin]

Very nice job. I agree that a complete chassis strip is a huge job and I don't do it either. The chassis is unlikely to rust again if kept in dry conditions but you could give it a light spray with WD40 after the electrical work is complete (rust prevention is what WD40 was actually designed for), or rub it down with an oily rag.

[Boater Sam]

Ah, the rub down with an oily rag, can't beat it.

Cathy, I have sent you a PM.

Sam

[cathy_vintage]

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

Very nice job. I agree that a complete chassis strip is a huge job and I don't do it either. The chassis is unlikely to rust again if kept in dry conditions but you could give it a light spray with WD40 after the electrical work is complete (rust prevention is what WD40 was actually designed for), or rub it down with an oily rag.

Thanks for the advice and kind words Paul,

Ash just gave me the data sheet (see clip attached and link) and evidently an additional product they sell creates a corrosion inhibiting layer too. Still worth a spray with WD40 though , as it can't do any harm.

http://www.bilthamber.com/media/down...x-Gel_Tech.pdf

[cathy_vintage]

Hello from Ash.. a bit of a break from this due to work commitments but I spent the last two nights fitting new capacitors and wiring and hopefully ready to switch on at the weekend ( via 'Variac' and 100w series connected bulb). I think I have sorted out the select switches which wouldn't latch and also I have got the additional mains switch on the same switch bank to work, although it was not connected to the transformer and I am unsure of the original routing and wire style to the mains transformer.

I found these books from the 1950's, the only ones I have in a big collection of books I have to teach me fundamental valve radio theory.

[60 oldjohn]

Hi Ash, Some more reading to fill in the gaps. FOC Ash has first chance collection or Hornsea.

John.

[cathy_vintage]

Whey hey John ... Yes please ...I nattered this old guy in Romford to give me those books but he only had the three volumes that I have in my picture. Can I pick up when we visit to see your collection please?

[60 oldjohn]

Yes PM sent.

John.

[cathy_vintage]

It lives !! Powered it up with two lengths of wire into the aerial sockets and picking up a local AM radio station pretty good. Powered up initially via a Variac with a 100w bulb in series with the mains input. Not particularly loud on full volume but we are both really chuffed that we are at least getting sound from it. What is the best form of aerial to do it justice? Still some wiring / cleaning up work to do. I think the next thing might be to measure the fixed resistor values and check they are in spec. I am assuming they will be 20% tolerance originally or should they be better than that ? Could the lack of volume be aerial signal strength, resistor value degradation, valve emission or a combination of all three or something else? Of course I am using the GP 'standard' RS audio output transformer on the tapping settings recommended in an earlier post, so it may be that.

[Boater Sam]

Resistors would have been 20% at best, very possibly there are no critical values at all.
Signal strengths are lower than they used to be I'm sure, and the interference that we cannot avoid these days makes it worse.
I don't think sets of this vintage were ever loud either, and we run them on the 250V settings usually to extend the life a bit when the mains is probably 230-240V.
Valves lose emissions slightly too, or are electrons smaller now?

I like a success story, well done. I have enjoyed the journey, thanks.

[stitch1]

I've been following this thread with interest, great to see some power on at last and a positive result.

Originally Posted by cathy_vintage

... Powered up initially via a Variac with a 100w bulb in series with the mains input. Not particularly loud on full volume ...

Daft question maybe but is the volume still low when full power is applied?

John

[paulsherwin]

Performance will be poor with the lamp in circuit.

For an aerial you just need a long length of wire, the longer the better, ideally outside. You should get reasonable reception on SW and the HF end of MW with just a couple of metres, but good LW performance needs a lot more than this.

[cathy_vintage]

I took the lamp out of the circuit shortly after it powered up safely and I had sound from it.

The volume pot was at maximum. I think one factor is that the chassis is out of the wooden cabinet and the sound will be much better with it all assembled....... plus I need a decent outdoor aerial. I think I will check that all of the resistors are reading correctly. Plus I need to do the DC voltage checks detailed in the Trader Service Sheet but at least I now know that the coils are OK, that was my biggest concern as they look pretty specialized.

Great for us both to meet with John and David today at the Hornsea radio Rally.

[Mike. Watterson]

Lovely set. Lucky you pair cathy_vintage.
I find a loop aerial picks up much less interference.
I have an Ever Ready 5017.

Ever Ready bought control of Lissen in 1928.
The Lissen MD left and formed Vidor by buying Burndept in 1934.
So from 1935 to 1938 there was Pye involvement to produce Ever Ready sets. Up to 1941, most were actually mains and the same or similar chassis in Ever Ready and Lissen cases styled differently.
Also 1935 to 1941 they often did the same case with AC, AC/DC or DC mains and battery versions (2V). 1939 saw the All Dry portable in Lissen and Ever Ready, that was also sold as a larger table model in Wood and Bakelite. After the war, the revised Ever Ready All Dry was the model A and also model D (Large Bakelite).


All the Ever Ready tubes are Mullard, thus have equivalent. A few models may be very close to Pye models (at least one has Mazda valves like the equivalent Pye).

I may have made some mistakes.
Some sets cunningly have different scale & knob layouts between Lissen and Ever Ready by using outrigger plates on the main chassis for the controls.

Lissen & Ever Ready 1935 to 1941

Lissen & Ever Ready Sorted by Valve /Tube type

Note K30C, K30D and K30K seem to be interchangeable.
Lissen Yr Ever Ready Type Valves/Tube TS
8317 1937 5031 Radio 5 A36B A50P A20B A70D A11D 257
8417 Glamis 1938 5117 Radio 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 372
8302 1937 5029 Radio 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 778
8322 Monarch 1937 5040 Radiogram 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 778
8453 Kenilworth 1938 5103 Radio 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 372
8422 Edinburgh 1938 5122 Radiogram 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 372
8424 Monarch 1938 Radiogram 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 778
8432 Edinburgh 1938 5132 Radiogram 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 372
8319 1937 Radio 6 A36B A50P A23A S30D A39A A11D 309
8401 Carisbrooke 1938 5104 Radio 4 A36B A50P A27D A11D
8303 1937 5026 Radio 4 A50N A30D A70D A11D 203
8114 1935 5011 Radio 7 A50N A80A A50N A23A Tuneon A70C A11D
8305 Olympian 1937 5027 Radio 4 A50P A30D A70D A11B 757
8402 Caernarvon 1938 5105 Radio 6 A50P A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 391
8216 1936 5016 Radio 4 A50P A50B A70D A11D 738
8214 1936 5014 Radio 4 A80A A30D A70C A11B 153
8111 1935 5004 Radio 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
8108 1935 5005 Radiogram 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
8116 1935 5006 Radio 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
8117 1935 Radio 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
8121 1935 Radio 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
8125 1936 Radiogram 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
8128 1936 Radio 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
8129 1936 Radio 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
8301 1937 5038 Radio 4 A80A A50P A27D A11D 752
8321 1937 5036 Radio 5 C36B C50N C20C C70D C10B 327
8421 Dover 1938 Radio 5 C36C C50N C23B C70D C10B
8521 1938 5005 Radio 5 C36C VP13C C20C Pen3520 U4020 415
8329 Marquis 1938 Radio 5 A36B A50P A23A A70B A11D
8130 1936 5013 Radio 4 C50N C30B C70D C10B 722
8133 1936 Radio 4 C50N C30B C70D C10B 722
8514 1939 5214 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
8515 1939 5215 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
8517 1939 5217 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
8518 1939 5218 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
8519 1939 5219 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
8618 Stafford 1939 5318 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
8485 Richmond 1939 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
8481 Winchester 1940 5381 Radiogram 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
8503 Portland 1939 5203 Radio 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
8480 Salisbury 1940 5380 Radiogram 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
8529 1939 Radiogram 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
8533 1939 Radiogram 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
8539 1939 Radiogram 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
8547/A York 1940 5347 Radio 4 ECH3 EF9 EBL1 AZ1 481
8647 Lancaster 1940 Radio 4 ECH3 EF9 EBL1 AZ1 481
8112 1935 Radio 3 K30C K30C K70B
8119 1935 Radio 3 K30C K30C K70B
8119 1936 Radio 3 K30C K30C K70B
8118 1935 5020 Radio 4 K40N K30C K30E K33B or K33A 97
8164 1936 5035 Radio 4 K40N K30C K30E K33B or K33A 97
8122 1936 5028 Radio 3 K50M K30C K70B 599
8311 1937 Radio 3 K50M K30C K70B 599
8165 1936 5015 Radio 3 K50M K30C K70D 159
8115 1935 5024 Radio 3 K50M K30D K70B 585
8168 1936 5010 Radio 4 K50M K30K K30K K70D
8409 Sunshine 1938 5041 Radio 4 K50N K30K K30K K70B 636
8306 1937 5039 Radio 3 K50N K30K K70B 260
8406 Windsor 1938 Radio 3 K50N K30K K70B
8456 Messenger 1938 5106 Radio 3 K50N K30K K70B
8169 1936 5019 Radio 4 K80A K50M K23B K70B
8109 1935 5007 Radio 4 K80A K50M K23B K70B 685
8318 1937 5032 Radio 4 K80B K50N K23B K70B 748
8468 Arundel 1938 5101 Radio 4 K80B K50N K23B K70B 369
8418 Conway 1938 5118 Radio 4 K80B K50N K23B K70B 369
8110 1935 5008 Radio 3 TP2620 VP1321 PenDD4020 741
8113 1935 5017 Radio 4 VP1321 HL1320 Pen3520 U4020 549
8304 1937 5030 Radio 5 X22 K50N K23B K30E K33B 230



From Ever Ready
Ever Ready Yr Lissen Type Valves /Tubes TS
5031 1937 8317 Radio 5 A36B A50P A20B A70D A11D 257
5029 1937 8302 Radio 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 778
5040 1937 8322 Monarch Radiogram 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 778
5122 1938 8432 Edinburgh Radiogram 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D
5132 1938 8432 Edinburgh Radiogram 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D
5103 1938 8453 Kenilworth Radio 5 A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 372
5104 1938 8401 Carisbrooke Radio 4 A36B A50P A27D A11D
5117 1938 8417 Glamis Radio 5 A36C A50P A23A A70D A11D 386
5026 1937 8303 Radio 4 A50N A30D A70D A11D
5011 1935 8114 Radio 7 A50N A80A A50N A23A Tuneon A70C A11D
5025 1935 Radio 7 A50N A80A A50N A23A Tuneon A70C A11D
5027 1937 8305 Olympian Radio 4 A50P A30D A70D A11B 757
5105 1938? 8402 Caernarvon Radio 6 A50P A36B A50P A23A A70D A11D 391
5016 1936 8216 Radio 4 A50P A50B A70D A11D 738
5014 1936? 8214 Radio 4 A80A A30D A70C A11B 153
5005 1935 8108 Radiogram 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
5004 1935 8111 Radio 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
5006 1935 8116 Radio 5 A80A A50N A20B A70D A11D 586
5038 1937 8301 Radio 4 A80A A50P A27D A11D 752
5002 1935? Radio 4 ACTP ACVP1 AC2/PenDD IW3
5036 1937 8321 Radio 5 C36B C50N C20C C70D C10B 327
5013 1936 8130 Radio 4 C50N C30B C70D C10B 722
5214 E 1939 8514 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
5215 1939 8515 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
5216 1939 8516 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
5217 1939 8517 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
5218 W 1939 8518 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
5219 1939 8519 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
5318 1939 8618 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
5218 B 1939 Radio 4 DK1 DF1 DAC1 DL2 450
5381 1940 8481 Radiogram 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
5380 1940 8480 Radiogram 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
5203 1939 8503 Radio 5 ECH3 EF9 EBC3 EL3 AZ1 488
5347 1940 8547/A York Radio 4 ECH3 EF9 EBL1 AZ1 481
5035 1937 8164 Radio 4 K40N K30C K30E K33B 97
5020 1937 8118 Radio 4 K40N K30C K30E K33B 97
5015 1936 8165 Radio 3 K50M K30C K70D 159
5024 1936 8115 Radio 3 K50M K30D K70B 175
5012 1935 8115 Radio 3 K50M K30D K70B 585
5028 1937 8122 Radio 3 K50M K30D K70B 599
5010 1936 8168 Radio 4 K50M K30K K30K K70D 301
5041 1938 8409 Sunshine Radio 4 K50N K30K K30K K70B 636
5039 1937 8306 Radio 3 K50N K30K K70B 260
5015 1938 8456 Messenger Radio 3 K50N K30K K70B
5019 1937? 8169 Radio 4 K80A K50M K23B K70B
5007 1935 8109 Radio 4 K80A K50M K23B K77A 730
5032 1937 8318 Radio 4 K80B K50N K23B K70B 748
5118 1938 8418 Conway Radio 4 K80B K50N K23B K70B 369
5101 1938 8468 Arundel Radio 4 K80B K50N K23B K70B 369
5001 1935? Radio 5 PM12M FC2 VP2 PM2D1 PM2B 127
5008 1935 8110 Radio 3 TP2620 VP1321 PenDD4020 741
5017 1935 8113 Radio 4 VP1321 HL1320 Pen3520 U4020 549
5030 1938? 8304 Radio 5 X22 K50N K23B K30E K33B 230

E = Early, W = Wood, B = Bakelite

There may be mistakes!

They tended to have a new Lissen cabinet design and have an AC only, an AC/DC and Battery version chassis for same cabinet. Then a variation of cabinet for Ever Ready. The design of the AC, AC/DC and Battery chassis (TRF, normal superhet, short superhet etc) would be similar but differing mainly in valve type, heater wiring and PSU. Radiograms always used an AC only Radio chassis sold separately and could come in different styles of Manual. Auto changers might take mixed sizes or one size only. The battery chassis might be reused as a portable as well as alternate to AC or AC/DC chassis in same table cabinet. There are a few "real" attempts at portables before the "All Dry" that use gel type accumulators and specially designed chassis.

The lists above are not ALL Lissen and Ever Ready, but the 1935 to 1940 models excluding variations for Forces Entertainment as they are just a variation of Lissen 8514 / Ever Ready 5214.

So make comments and we can then produce final equivalent tables for public consumption!

Paul King (guest from UK) has sent me an extract of Oct 1989 Radiophile by the late "Dictron". He is concerned with identifying Pye Chassis (the basic chassis 1935 to 1938 of many is by Pye) so "lumps" more together, while I am trying for more exact matches. He had a couple I missed and I have a few he missed! The above is updated somewhat.

Variations against Dictron's Oct/Nov 1989 Pye story.

He is approaching it from the actual "metalwork" aspect of the chassis, so both his E-R1 and E-R2 groups are mix of AC, AC/DC and Battery sets. I had in fact realised already that not only is same case in a particular year offered with all three options but that chassis layout can be the same. However, for my purposes they are different sets!

Similarly he "lumps" grams and table models and even versions with different valve line up a year later etc!

I'm not matching "similar" but simply 1:1 rebadging.

So the differences only, not the whole list!
Dictron in italics, mine in bold based on year, same case style and same schematic!
5006: 8111 8116 8117 8121 8125 8128 8129 8116 only
5007: 8108 8109 (Radiogram & Battery set!) NO MATCH
5020: 8118 8164 8118 (5035 is 8164)
5028: 8301 8311 8122 (listed models are mains, this is battery, transcription error of 5038?)
5029: 8302 8322 8324 8302 (second pair are grams using same radio)
5035: as 5020 8164 (5035 and 8164 are revised later versions of 5020 and 8118)
5039: 8306 8406 8306 only (8406 is a later model)
5040: as 5029 8322 only (Matching kind of gram)
5041: 8409 8329 Sunshine 8409, (The Marquis 8329 is mains, not battery portable!)
5101: 8418 8468 8468 (the 8418 no buttons, wrong box)
5103: 8417 8422 8453 8453 (only one same style)
5104: (blank) 8410
5118: as 5101 8418 is correct cabinet
5122: (blank) 8422
5132: (blank) 8433

I'm NOT matching models that are simply same chassis, but that are same shape /style of cabinet, radio, radio with presets, year, manual gram and auto-gram.

There are MANY lissen / Ever ready that are same chassis with tiny variation a year later, or in three cabinet styles and both kinds of gram in the same year.

[Mike. Watterson]

After WWII the Lissen brand was wound up and only one model even had built in mains, the BEREC fiesta, mains/battery model, though I've heard rumours of an official adaptor for Berec Commander / Sky Emperor.

Ever Ready was BEREC in 1906 (British Ever Ready Electrical Company, founded by USA Ever Ready, which became Eveready in NCC / UC years), and used BEREC (British Ever Ready Export Company) from about 1950 for exports. In early 1980s just before Hanson Trust bought and asset stripped them, they were briefly BEREC in the UK, reverted to Ever Ready and then sold to Energiser, the rebranded USA Eveready owned by Purina pet foods.

Models
Four periods of Ever Ready: 1935 to 1941 (majority mains!), 1941 to 1941 All dry model only, 1945 to 1962/1964 Battery models only. After 1962 or 1964, the few Ever Ready models seem to have been bought in / OEM. The Ever Ready Deluxe might be rarest transistor model
http://www.radiomuseum.org/m/ever_gb_en_1.html

Three periods of Lissen: before 1928, 1928 to 1934, 1935 to 1941.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/m/lissen_gb_en_1.html

They did some very large radiograms before WWII. One transistor portable record player in 1950s.

Berec 1950 to 1962 for export Radios, longer for batteries. The UK Ever Ready 6802 Skytime, 6800 Skyleader and 6801 Skyranger were branded Berec on rear and made in Far East.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/m/berec_gb_en_1.html

History
http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_herst...ompany_id=3899
http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_herst...ompany_id=6294
Berec and equivalents http://www.radiomuseum.org/dsp_herst...ompany_id=6423

The USA Eveready / NCC / UC did very few radios, and those were simply another maker rebadged.

[cathy_vintage]

Thanks for all of that info Mike .. I will read it and try to understand it all:

I found this on the valves

EverReady and Lissen
Lissen bought in valves without bases and added their own. It’s not clear if ANY early Lissen valve wasn’t bought in. In 1928 Ever Ready bought control. By 1935 Noah Cole the founder of Lissen was gone as he had founded Vidor in 1934.

Ever Ready adopted a continental style scheme and from 1935 bought Mullard valves (or possibly some were really made by Philips in Netherlands) but used their own continental style scheme

A = 4V (usually indirect, but not always)

C = 200mA series indirect, any voltage.

K = 2V (usually direct battery filament)

S= 4V (Usually direct)

Next digit is number of electrodes. i.e. 2 = Diode, 8 = Octode, though Pentodes are 7. If it’s a single device, then second digit is zero. If a dual device such as TDD13C, then 2nd digit is different device C23B, the “3” indicates a Triode. Thus K33A is a dual 2V Triode and K77B is a Dual 2V direct pentode.

The suffix letter indicates a later version, or for battery types selected matching bias; for Push Pull, or Screen grid bias tap to use.

All the All Dry valves (1.4V) using Ever Ready Branding used Mullard type numbers. Mullard used US numbers 1938 to 1946 for US imports they resold. In 1945 the late 1930s 5 pin and 7 pin 2 volt valves (Ever Ready K series) had Octal bases fitted as there was a market still for Accumulator fed LT (no home Electricity and cheaper than All Dry LT batteries if a nearby cycle shop or neighbour to charge the cell). The 2 Volt valves thus in radios sold up to 1950. But Ever Ready being a Battery maker sold no sets using 2V LT after 1939. Only one post 1942 Ever Ready set even had a mains option, the 1956 BEREC Fiesta.

[Mike. Watterson]

I think I wrote that