HMV 2040 record player. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

112stereo · 14th Jan 2019, 12:01 pm

I have just inherited an HMV 2040 record player in immaculate condition.
Totally seized of course.
Have stripped the deck cleaned and lubricated where necessary and it now runs like a dream with everything doing what it should, however, the C1 stereo cartridge is dead one side.
I can purchase another one, but I have a Sonotone 9TA cartridge in full working order and looking at the spec it seems to have a simular output, but the load is very different.
The C1 is 47k with the sonotone 1M.
The amp appears to have a preamp !
My question is can I just fit the Sonotone or will I need to make any modifications?
Normally I would just try it, but as the Sonotone has to be soldered in permanently I am a bit unsure if I should proceed or just get a direct replacement.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Kentode · 14th Jan 2019, 12:15 pm

The cartridge may be fine. Try cleaning the contacts for stereo out, marked J3 on the diagram.

This is a common fault on Bush SRP51/31.

Techman · 14th Jan 2019, 1:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 112stereo

the Sonotone has to be soldered in permanently

I've never heard of such a thing as a ceramic cartridge being soldered in permanently. Soldering directly to the cartridge pins will destroy it due to the heat from the soldering iron - unless you mean having to fit the special connector plug that came with the Sonotone?

Nickthedentist · 14th Jan 2019, 1:15 pm

As Techman says, the Sonotone has a special plug which should be removed prior to soldering to its terminals, then replaced in the back of the cartridge: https://www.thestyluslady.co.uk/ekmp...s-1499-1-p.jpg

As a quick and dirty test, you might be able to just push the existing tags on the HMV/BSR onto the Sonotone's plug's terminals, having squashed the with a pair of tweezers first so that they grip.

N.

112stereo · 14th Jan 2019, 4:05 pm

When I say soldered in permanently, I have to remove the 4 lugs that plug into the C1 cartridge and replace them with a sonotone plug which then makes me a bit dependent on a sonotone cartridge unless I refit the 4 little plugs if the sonotone is not compatible, very fiddly.
I have confirmed the c1 cartridge is faulty so the fault must be internal.
It's a shame the cartridge has failed had it worked the set would be totally original and apart from the seized deck everything else is fine including the controls!

Edward Huggins · 15th Jan 2019, 11:14 am

The Sonotone 9TA is regarded as one of the best stereo ceramic cartridges ever made and has a superior frequency plot over the C1 type. It may have a slightly lower output, but there appears to be sufficient gain over the AF stages of the amplifier on your HMV 2040 to compensate. If you do decide to fit this, you will not be disappointed.

kirstyd · 15th Jan 2019, 10:53 pm

i have repaired quite a few of the BSR carts by carefully opening them [grind the top of the rivet]once inside you usually find the four contacts are tarnished .Clean them all [i do it with a dremmel ] then reassemble with a dab of adhesive where the rivet was you need a steady hand and some patience but its worth a try and you have nothing to lose

112stereo · 16th Jan 2019, 9:42 am

Thank you I will certainly try opening and cleaning the cartridge, but will keep it for another project.
Have fitted the sonotone there is a difference in quality and for the better, however, I appear to have lost some high frequencies, the tone control is fully turned up, it sounds good but I now have no further adjustment should I need it.
The sonotone has a much lower tracking weight than the C1,I have it set to 3grams at the moment, which is a good thing, but I think the tone arm is a little stiff 45's are ok but occasionally on LP's it starts to stick in one place, so a good clean in this region is in order I think.
Should the mechanics of the tone arm be lubricated with anything, or is it better dry so to speak ?
Just to mention all my test records are not good ones.

Edward Huggins · 16th Jan 2019, 2:03 pm

The Sonotone is good for tracking as low as 2.5 gram in an appropriate right tone arm, but I think dropping the arm on that BSR to as low as 3 grams may be asking too much of it. Bear in mind, that this BSR C1xx series autochanger is quite a basic unit. But I'm surprised that you have lost high frequencies. See how it is as a heavier weight?

112stereo · 17th Jan 2019, 3:13 pm

Have tried 4 and 5 grams but no change.
Have freeded up the tone arm and it tracks much better now.
Could the stylus be sitting wrong on the record and if so how can I check it?

Edward Huggins · 17th Jan 2019, 5:48 pm

From the front it needs to be completely vertical sitting in its soft moulded mount.
From the side there should be a -15 degree negative rake. A x10 glass will help. Use tweezers if needed.

112stereo · 18th Jan 2019, 5:38 pm

Thank you for that, I will check that over the weekend.

112stereo · 19th Jan 2019, 4:34 pm

All good thank you all.
The new stylus is faulty, the actual point is at a slight angle.
The supplier has agreed to replace it.
Tried one from another record player sounds much better, but still having to run the tone control at max.
Might swop the whole cartridge and see what happens.
But I am pleased with the overall sound quality and might just leave it alone.

Edward Huggins · 19th Jan 2019, 5:44 pm

A slight angle is normal when viewed from the side.

14th Jan 2019, 12:01 pm	#1
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	HMV 2040 record player. I have just inherited an HMV 2040 record player in immaculate condition. Totally seized of course. Have stripped the deck cleaned and lubricated where necessary and it now runs like a dream with everything doing what it should, however, the C1 stereo cartridge is dead one side. I can purchase another one, but I have a Sonotone 9TA cartridge in full working order and looking at the spec it seems to have a simular output, but the load is very different. The C1 is 47k with the sonotone 1M. The amp appears to have a preamp ! My question is can I just fit the Sonotone or will I need to make any modifications? Normally I would just try it, but as the Sonotone has to be soldered in permanently I am a bit unsure if I should proceed or just get a direct replacement. Any advice would be appreciated. Attached Thumbnails

14th Jan 2019, 12:15 pm	#2
Kentode Octode Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Yorkshire, England. Posts: 1,301	Re: HMV record player. The cartridge may be fine. Try cleaning the contacts for stereo out, marked J3 on the diagram. This is a common fault on Bush SRP51/31. __________________ Regards, Ken. BVWS member

14th Jan 2019, 1:15 pm	#4
Nickthedentist Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oxford, UK. Posts: 17,841	Re: HMV record player. As Techman says, the Sonotone has a special plug which should be removed prior to soldering to its terminals, then replaced in the back of the cartridge: https://www.thestyluslady.co.uk/ekmp...s-1499-1-p.jpg As a quick and dirty test, you might be able to just push the existing tags on the HMV/BSR onto the Sonotone's plug's terminals, having squashed the with a pair of tweezers first so that they grip. N.

14th Jan 2019, 4:05 pm	#5
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: HMV record player. When I say soldered in permanently, I have to remove the 4 lugs that plug into the C1 cartridge and replace them with a sonotone plug which then makes me a bit dependent on a sonotone cartridge unless I refit the 4 little plugs if the sonotone is not compatible, very fiddly. I have confirmed the c1 cartridge is faulty so the fault must be internal. It's a shame the cartridge has failed had it worked the set would be totally original and apart from the seized deck everything else is fine including the controls!

15th Jan 2019, 11:14 am	#6
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,326	Re: HMV record player. The Sonotone 9TA is regarded as one of the best stereo ceramic cartridges ever made and has a superior frequency plot over the C1 type. It may have a slightly lower output, but there appears to be sufficient gain over the AF stages of the amplifier on your HMV 2040 to compensate. If you do decide to fit this, you will not be disappointed. __________________ Edward.

15th Jan 2019, 10:53 pm	#7
kirstyd Heptode Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 902	Re: HMV 2040 record player. i have repaired quite a few of the BSR carts by carefully opening them [grind the top of the rivet]once inside you usually find the four contacts are tarnished .Clean them all [i do it with a dremmel ] then reassemble with a dab of adhesive where the rivet was you need a steady hand and some patience but its worth a try and you have nothing to lose

16th Jan 2019, 9:42 am	#8
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: HMV 2040 record player. Thank you I will certainly try opening and cleaning the cartridge, but will keep it for another project. Have fitted the sonotone there is a difference in quality and for the better, however, I appear to have lost some high frequencies, the tone control is fully turned up, it sounds good but I now have no further adjustment should I need it. The sonotone has a much lower tracking weight than the C1,I have it set to 3grams at the moment, which is a good thing, but I think the tone arm is a little stiff 45's are ok but occasionally on LP's it starts to stick in one place, so a good clean in this region is in order I think. Should the mechanics of the tone arm be lubricated with anything, or is it better dry so to speak ? Just to mention all my test records are not good ones.

16th Jan 2019, 2:03 pm	#9
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,326	Re: HMV 2040 record player. The Sonotone is good for tracking as low as 2.5 gram in an appropriate right tone arm, but I think dropping the arm on that BSR to as low as 3 grams may be asking too much of it. Bear in mind, that this BSR C1xx series autochanger is quite a basic unit. But I'm surprised that you have lost high frequencies. See how it is as a heavier weight? __________________ Edward.

17th Jan 2019, 3:13 pm	#10
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: HMV 2040 record player. Have tried 4 and 5 grams but no change. Have freeded up the tone arm and it tracks much better now. Could the stylus be sitting wrong on the record and if so how can I check it?

17th Jan 2019, 5:48 pm	#11
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,326	Re: HMV 2040 record player. From the front it needs to be completely vertical sitting in its soft moulded mount. From the side there should be a -15 degree negative rake. A x10 glass will help. Use tweezers if needed. __________________ Edward.

18th Jan 2019, 5:38 pm	#12
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: HMV 2040 record player. Thank you for that, I will check that over the weekend.

19th Jan 2019, 4:34 pm	#13
112stereo Pentode Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Albans, Hertfordshire, UK. Posts: 215	Re: HMV 2040 record player. All good thank you all. The new stylus is faulty, the actual point is at a slight angle. The supplier has agreed to replace it. Tried one from another record player sounds much better, but still having to run the tone control at max. Might swop the whole cartridge and see what happens. But I am pleased with the overall sound quality and might just leave it alone.

19th Jan 2019, 5:44 pm	#14
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,326	Re: HMV 2040 record player. A slight angle is normal when viewed from the side. __________________ Edward.