What is this HMV Model?

[MichaelGerard]

Just unearthed (literally) this HMV gramophone. According to Getty images it is a 1927 5-valve set but I'm not sure it's that old. It's in astonishingly bad condition and is missing its turntable.

Getty Image link:
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail...-photo/3304398

Anyone got any ideas?

[stevehertz]

I'd tend to believe that it is 1927. Has the looks of, for sure.

[Techman]

Yes, it will be pre 1930 with a TRF radio section. It'll be quite rare as very few were made back then, so hardly any survive now. Forum member '1100 man' has a similar one I think that needs a lot of work - he mentioned it to me when I was doing a repair/restoration of a similar dated gramophone several years ago.

[ms660]

Originally Posted by MichaelGerard

Just unearthed (literally) this HMV gramophone. According to Getty images it is a 1927 5-valve set but I'm not sure it's that old. It's in astonishingly bad condition and is missing its turntable.

Getty Image link:
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail...-photo/3304398

Anyone got any ideas?

The model in the Getty image isn't the one in your photo.

Lawrence.

[Techman]

No, it's not the same as the one in the Getty picture. You may never find an exact 'likeness' for it. Apparently, people didn't want to buy radiograms when they first came out, so the idea was a bit of a flop and not many were sold, although there were a few different designs. It really is in very bad condition and with the missing parts it's worth very little, but probably worth saving by the right person. It looks like it's been in that damp old room, stood on those quarry tiles set straight onto the dirt for most/all of its life.

[Cobaltblue]

The style of cabinet was from around 1932/3

As far as I know the date on the Getty web site is wrong.

The Gramophone company didn't start making radio sets under the HMV name until 1929 it merged with EMI in 1931 and this looks very much like an EMI product.

Happy to be wrong

Cheers

Mike T

[SeanStevens]

This might be the radio chassis that you have:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/marconi_53.html

Have any of the valves got markings/labels on them?


SEAN

[Paul_RK]

Post-1930 appearance to me. 521AC?

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hismasters_521ac.html

Originally Posted by SeanStevens

This might be the radio chassis that you have:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/marconi_53.html

Wrong link? That's a battery portable.

Paul

[SeanStevens]

I cannot open the link - but this looks remarkably like your radiogram:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAb


SEAN

[stevehertz]

A friend of mine who is not a member of this forum advises:

"..that it's an HMV model 532 Superhet Ten Autoradiogram from 1931-32 model year. Ten valves, push-pull output as well! I used to have one - pics attached. Rare beast!"

I'm unable to act as a go between Q&A man on this I'm afraid.

[Paul_RK]

Yes, from what we can see of the control panel that seems a positive identification, including the (to me) odd-looking tuning-fork-like item at the rear of the radio control panel. Next question will be, what's left inside.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by Paul_RK

Next question will be, what's left inside.

Indeed!

My previous remark about it not being worth very much doesn't apply now if it's just the deck that's missing, but best not go on too much about that aspect of it. No more heard from the OP yet, so perhaps someone's contacted him and offered to take it away for a fiver!

[PaulR]

A friend has one of these which he bought for £5 from a local auction room several years ago. I restored the amplifier section but it always had a hum I couldn't get rid of. The only circuit diagram I had at the time was very confusing but I have since got the full HMV service manual. I really should get it back again to have another go at it but it weighs a ton and I only took the amp and speaker the first time.

Edit - My friend's is a 532A. The radio section valves are on a chassis mounted horizontally rather than vertically as the one in the photos is. All the valves were good including the PX4s but except the rectifier.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by PaulR

I restored the amplifier section but it always had a hum I couldn't get rid of. All the valves were good including the PX4s but except the rectifier.

Normally you don't need such a thing as a valve tester, but this is one of the cases where you either need one or you need to put a little circuit together with power supplies and meters to test the output valves individually, as any significant difference in emission between them can cause one heck of a hum...trust me - 'been there/done that' with these old grams and unbalanced triode valves.

I guess you checked smoothing etc.

[PaulR]

Thank you Techman. That is an interesting suggestion re the output valves. I do have a valve tester but I don't remember whether I tried to match them. My friend and his father have had many radios over the years and when they disposed of them as just old radios they kept the valves on a box. When I went through it with him there were at least another two PX4s just mingled together with all the others so there is a good chance that I could get two that are reasonably matched from the four or five available.

From what I remember the smoothing caps were very small values, a couple of uFs. There is a large choke which I got rewound by Ed on here. I could try increasing the values of the caps. It is over 10 years since I did it so my memory is a bit hazy.

He said that the turntable motor has stopped recently, possibly due to a bad capacitor so I might suggest that I look at it again.

[slidertogrid]

That speaker fret looks as if it was used on more than one model . I had a HMV radiogram with the same fret with an autochanger deck and massively heavy it looked very similar to the set in post 10 but the chassis was nothing like the one pictured.
My set had a smaller chassis horizontal on a shelf with all the valves in a row at the rear. I was told my set was pre 1930. I sold it quite a few years ago when I had to reduce my collection due to the loss of storage.

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by slidertogrid

That speaker fret looks as if it was used on more than one model .

Yes, it's similar if not identical on the 4+1 valve 521 'gram I linked to above - valves all in a row in that one - and the 6+1 valve 470 -

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hismas...seven_470.html .

There was even a portable with a very similar if slightly simplified fret,

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hismas...e_six_459.html

Using a particular fret design was fairly common for manufacturers, whether with variations over years, as Pye's with rising sun, or just for a particular year's models, like Ultra's early '30s ranges. I'd be a little surprised if this one appeared before 1931, and as Mike T says HMV only entered the market in '29.

Paul

[Techman]

Well the OP has logged on again today only a couple of hours ago, so he's looking, but no further comment yet.

The speaker grill cloth looks to have survived better than on the one in post #10, which is amazing considering the state of the rest of it. It looks like there's some sort of 'slat' or 'division' arrangement where the deck as been removed - any ideas on what might be going on there?

As regards age, I agree that it's certainly early thirties now, particularly with a superhet radio section. Just as a point of note regarding the one shown in post #10, the speaker baffle looks like chipboard, but this could just be a trick of the photo. Another point is that the output triodes look like newer replacements - I wouldn't have expected those 'bottle' shaped valves in a set of that age, but I'm certainly not the last word expert on such things. What we need is for the OP to provide a picture of the innards of his gram from the rear, if that's possible.

Regarding the gram that Paul is going to look at, the differing output is nearly always down to the heaters. These are directly heated and the heater strings are obviously the cathode, so often just by looking at the level of 'glow' from the heater strings in a darkened room you can immediately tell whether one valve is down on power. Just measuring heater current will tell all, or even easier than that, measuring the cold resistance of the heater of each valve will in many cases give the game away - it will only be an ohm or so, so if one's higher than the other, that's likely to be the faulty valve. There's usually an easy fix as the problem is usually high resistance in the base pins of the valve. Sometimes there's broken heater strings as they're very delicate - It's often been mentioned lately regarding 'scope tubes not travelling well by post, well the same applies to these power triodes! The very early versions of these output valves (pre 1930) had the electrode structure sloping and partly on its side - not good for the poor old unsupported heater strings - it would be interesting to see what type of valves are in the gram in question, if there's any of the innards still still left inside, that is.

Hopefully the OP will provide a bit more information on what has turned out to be a rather interesting radiogram, regardless of its rather poor condition.

[MichaelGerard]

Hi everyone. Sorry not to reply until now. I'm new to this site and only just found out how to see my posts and replies. Overwhelmed by the volume of response. I'll have to go down to the cottage and take some more photos of the inside. Watch this space! Cheers

[MichaelGerard]

Hi again. Yes, it looks like SteveHertz was right: HMV model 532.

Dimensions: H 103 (incl legs); W 74; D 53.5 (cms)

Here are some photos of the innards. Seem to be sockets for 10 valves but I can only count eight, of which two are floating about on the floor of the unit.

Both layers of veneer on the LHS are coming off both inside and out but as whole pieces. The veneer on the top sound a little loose in places. The RHS is solid. Where I can see the wood on the LHS it seems solid and it seems to be solid wood, not chipboard.

The unit has a retailer's mark: Rushworth & Dreaper, 11-17 Islington, Liverpool. Also there is the instruction to "Close lid whilst playing". R&D made organs so I don't know what their name is doing inside a gramophone.

The felt under the lid has holes but the HMV badge is still there.

What I do know is that this gramophone deserves better than I can give it - no time and no expertise. It certainly deserves better than it's had over the last few decades!

Any ideas and suggestions would be welcome, even if its "pay someone £5 to take it away" I can take more photos is required.