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Old 21st Dec 2023, 12:13 pm   #3461
knobtwiddler
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Poor engineering is poor engineering, and should be called out, especially in a premium-priced, heavily promoted product.

S.
Ditto. Especially if this engineering is also intended to have the fringe benefit of intimidating the buyer into purchasing your cables - kerching!

The average buyer just wants to get on with enjoying their music. I got an email this week, asking me if he needed to buy various expensive cables, quoting exactly the same patter. The OEMs who indulge in this sort of thing are exploiting user gullibility. It's a symptom of a vastly greater problem that exists within society, that enables far more dangerous pseudo-science to gain a foothold in our pysche. It should be called out and shown zero tolerance.

I see no basis, engineering or moral, that a user should need to use a specific speaker cable with a particular amp. It makes a laughing stock of British manufacturing and does no one any good (other than the OEM's shareholders).
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 12:42 pm   #3462
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

There are two fundamental problems colliding here.

Firstly is that some amplifier designers have chosen to not have protective networks on the outputs of their amplifiers to guard against high frequency capacitive loads introducing excess phase shift at ultrasonic frequencies within the loop response of the amplifier. They see this as something they can make claims about, creating a novel selling point. Largely, the advantage is fictitious, but themoney it brings in is real enough. People without knowledge of stability margins in feedback control systems and the maths needed are easily taken in by this. Nyquist's stability criterion is simply the obverse of the coin with Barkhausen's criterion for oscillation on the other side.

Secondly, there is money to be made in tham thar cables. Some cable manufacturers have been looking for a pseudo-scientific basis for any claims which could be used to shift more expensive cables. They've heard of the maximum power transfer theorem and heard of matched transmission lines. If they attended any education on the things they must have dozed through the section on where you wouldn't want that amount of power to be taken by a load.... the theorem extracts the maximum amount of power theoretically available from that source impedance. It cares not one whit about whether this amount would happen to destroy the source. Efficient power transportation is usually significantly away from a true match. Low Z source into higher Z load is popular for good efficiency and suits voltage to velocity transducerd like moving coil speakers. They also were asleep through the bits on complementary matches where if one of source and load has some reactance, the opposite end ought to have the same reactive component but of opposite sign.

They probably also bunked off on the day loudpeakker impedances were taught. Speaker impedances vary by about an order of magnitude across the audio band. So which value do they intend to set their match right at? People want it to work at all audio frequencies, simultaneously!

Audiophiles believe that there is no limit to the discrimination abilities of human hearing, so therefore they cannot accept that there are things at a level where it really makes no difference. They can never find happiness, they can never be satisfied. This and the price of their preferred equipment together form one of the worst curses in our universe.

If it wasn't hurting and impoverishing people, it would be funny.

Call it the mathematics/engineering tax. And it preys on pride.

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Old 21st Dec 2023, 1:16 pm   #3463
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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If it wasn't hurting and impoverishing people, it would be funny.

Call it the mathematics/engineering tax. And it preys on pride.


Seasonally enough, talking of pride and humility, there's a great poem by a grumpy dead Irishman called Kavanagh - called 'Advent'. This time of year used to be a bit of a fast, like Lent, before the feast of Christmas.

'...here in this advent-darkened room, the dry black bread, and sugarless tea of penance, will charm back the luxury of a child's soul...'

Listen to some of your favourite music on an a.m. set using a pantry transmitter, for a few days. If you're like me, make it a poorly-maintained a.m. set which doesn't sound that great.

Then listen to the same thing on the most average 'hi-fi' / midi system / any old headphones. Revelation!

Those monks of old knew what they were doing. Season's Greetings!
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 2:25 pm   #3464
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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You mean Low inductance, high capacitance!
Ha - whoops, yes I do. Sorry - it's been a long week!
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 2:28 pm   #3465
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Poor engineering is poor engineering, and should be called out, especially in a premium-priced, heavily promoted product.
All engineering is a compromise. Your choice of compromise might be different to someone else's, but that doesn't make it wrong.

Any manufacturer is wise to state the conditions in which their product will or will not perform 'correctly', if only to protect themselves from customers that do 'unwise' things to it.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 2:29 pm   #3466
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If it wasn't hurting and impoverishing people, it would be funny.
OK, you really are going to have to explain to me how someone buying an amplifier that you don't approve of and a set of matching cables is "hurting and impoverishing people".
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 2:38 pm   #3467
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Audiophiles believe that there is no limit to the discrimination abilities of human hearing, so therefore they cannot accept that there are things at a level where it really makes no difference. They can never find happiness, they can never be satisfied. This and the price of their preferred equipment together form one of the worst curses in our universe.
Some maybe, but as both an engineer and an audiophile I tend to try and explain what I hear and do not hear, rather than just exclude the things that I can't explain or buy things where I can't hear a positive difference.

But at the end of the day it's my hard-earned money to spend how I wish and I really think there are worse curses in the universe than me wasting my money!
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 5:10 pm   #3468
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

One of the dictionary definitions of "impoverished" is "made weaker or worse in quality". You could argue that wider society's understanding of physics is impoverished by the normalisation of audiophool cons such as little pylons that support your cables.

Even if someone is wealthy, audiophool cons will deplete their bank balance, which falls under the definition of impoverish.

The money that's spent on audiophool junk could be spent with those who take pride in making something objectively superior. Benchmark make the best performing power amp that I'm aware of (I don't count the Topping ones), and the AHB-2 is small change compared to ones made by Naim. You could argue that the likes of Benchmark are being impoverished by OEMs who exploit a lack of understanding in physics. Benchmark do not recommend specific cables to my knowledge... It would appear that their design is stable with bell wire.

^ That's 3 forms of impoverishment I can think of OTOH.

NB - before I get pulled up, Benchmark's amp is based around a patent that appears to have similarity with concepts previously patented by Quad. The patent is owned by THX, i.e. George Lucas. They are hardly impoverished! I mention Benchmark as it's known to have objectively world-leading performance for the sake of an example. There are little firms out there making world-class gear who don't have N**m's advertising budget. I think it's a little sad that people buy bogus speaker cables when they could be supporting these little OEMs instead. That's just my opinion.
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Old 21st Dec 2023, 5:53 pm   #3469
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The legendary Laurie Fincham (best known for his work at KEF) works at THX having decamped to the States long ago.

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Old 21st Dec 2023, 6:21 pm   #3470
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Maybe Laurie didn't fancy the job offer Naim made to him

(joke)

We could have a thread debating the similarities between THX's patent and Walker's famous current dumping. I can remember various amp designers salivating in the run up to the patent expiring... General opinion was that permutations of the concept (like many UK innovations, sadly) hadn't been fully explored by Quad. It'd be interesting to know the opinion of the Brains Trust here on that.
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Old 15th Feb 2024, 8:45 pm   #3471
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Mama Mia.

Anyone tempted…………….

https://www.thevinyladventure.com/pr...record-ground/

Regards, Ed
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Old 16th Feb 2024, 1:38 am   #3472
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Old 16th Feb 2024, 9:52 am   #3473
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

It doesn't grip the spindle, so it has no effect on the suspension of a suspended chassis turntable?

It's got something inside which dissipates energy while having no connection to anything but sixteen little studs pressing onto the record's label with its 0.197kg weight?

So it begins to look like a self-levitating electric monopole of essentially limitless capacity, or do they need to go back to the factory to be discharged periodically?

David
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Old 16th Feb 2024, 10:36 am   #3474
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

It's on a level with the pancake turntable mats some wag suggested in Hi Fi News in the 1970s.
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Old 16th Feb 2024, 11:44 am   #3475
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Did they have treacle as a damping-connecting medium?

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Old 16th Feb 2024, 12:12 pm   #3476
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Haven't you lot heard of wireless grounding?
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Old 16th Feb 2024, 12:18 pm   #3477
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

You'll be sold after reading this:
Quote:
Black Ravioli suggests this component
noise is entropy in the form of “confusion, disorder, and randomness” in a product, which can escalate into chaos.
Removing confusion Black Ravioli says the Record Ground specifically reduces this confusion, disorder, and randomness from the record surface during replay
Link: https://www.blackravioli.com/wp-cont...ackRavioli.pdf

Removing confusion reduces confusion. Simple. You don't need the whole team from Cern to tell you that.

And no one wants chaos, that's for sure. Strikes me as a no-nonsense product that we could all do with, especially at £500.

edit: this is a review that keeps on giving:

Quote:
The Black Ravioli Record Ground is supremely well packaged. We rarely comment on packaging
Maybe the impetus to pass comment was strong on this one?
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Old 16th Feb 2024, 2:30 pm   #3478
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Maybe there wasn't anything else tangible enough to comment on?

But if it worked, you'd wind up with a stored amount of pure confusion. It would have to be treated as hazardous waste and could be very expensive to dispose of legitimately. It might be less noticed in boardrooms and political buildings and fly-tipped in those places... maybe someone already is!

David
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Old 16th Feb 2024, 2:55 pm   #3479
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Did they have treacle as a damping-connecting medium?
No, sugar and lemon juice - or Golden Syrup for Deeca pickups.
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Old 16th Feb 2024, 4:02 pm   #3480
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Did they have treacle as a damping-connecting medium?

David
No, unfortunately the 'proper' treacle's no longer available... https://britishfoodhistory.com/2012/...es-of-england/
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