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Old 28th Mar 2024, 1:03 pm   #1
ortek_service
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Default GAL16V8 etc .EQN file 'Assembler' that runs natively on 32/64bit Windows ?

As GAL16V8's / GAL22V10's etc. are currently being used on a few Vintage Computer, I wondered what 'compiler' / assembler for the .EQN file (into a standard .JED file) people here have been using?

GALASM (Open-source, derived from an Amiga version, but they imposed non-commercial usage restrictions on it) seems to mainly be available only as source files from original Author on Github, that apparently needs compiling with gcc etc under Linux (or Cygwin, but I've not been able to get that running again, quite yet, after last using it around 20yrs ago. And I tried WSL under Windows 10, but wasn't Admin on the one I tried so wouldn't install gcc).
Although it says it is a 'Portable GAL Assembler, and looking at the C-Source files, there doesn't seem to really be anything in it that wouldn't work on, but the supplied ''make' file has a few Linux type file paths.

It seems there is a slightly-tweaked versions of the original GALASM - Mainly to ad CR & LF to lines in the .JED file, to make it work with Wellon etc programmers.
Plus I did find one github page with pre-compiled for Windows / DOS versions of GALasm, in both 32bit .EXE (for 32bit and 64bit Windows, although is still only a Command Line interface) and 16bit .COM (for DOS) formats:
https://github.com/nils-eilers/GALas...s/tag/Binaries

But I've tried GALASM on Win 7 64bit & Win XP 32bit, and just get an unhelpful 'Error: Not enough free memory! Assembling failed' response.


I've also found a more-recent 'GALette' open-source one, that the author has made totally open / free, but written it in 'Rust':
https://github.com/simon-frankau/galette
But I've not found any non-Visual Studio Rust Compilers for Windows, that actually work. And it seems 'Rust' may normally be included in gcc that only runs under Linux or a Windows emulation of that.


I've heard that the Microchip WinCUPL is rather old and prone to crashing on Win10

So has anyone found any GAL assemblers that do actually run natively on a 32/64bit Windows PC ? (And uses the same syntax as GALASM. EQN files) / have a version of GALasm compiled for Windows that does run directly on it?
Or is everyone using Linux to compile & run this?
- as finding one is proving to be rather more-difficult than hacking the .EQN file around should be!

Can much older PALASM be used, if device type is set to an equivalent PAL type?

TIA,
Owen
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Old 28th Mar 2024, 3:21 pm   #2
Phil__G
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Default Re: GAL16V8 etc .EQN file 'Assembler' that runs natively on 32/64bit Windows ?

I think what you're looking for is WinCUPL Owen, from Microchips site.
Personally I dont use it, I'd like to but I havent had time to learn it, so I use EQN2JED from the galasm suite under DOSbox.
I posted it here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...37#post1570137

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Old 28th Mar 2024, 5:55 pm   #3
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Default Re: GAL16V8 etc .EQN file 'Assembler' that runs natively on 32/64bit Windows ?

There was some support of the PAL devices in Altera's MaxPlus2, I used it to develop a combiner for rotary encoder sequences (in a 16R4) in the early '90s, and I think this was also in the free version. Might be there in free versions of Quartus.

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Old 29th Mar 2024, 2:02 pm   #4
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Default Re: GAL16V8 etc .EQN file 'Assembler' that runs natively on 32/64bit Windows ?

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
There was some support of the PAL devices in Altera's MaxPlus2, I used it to develop a combiner for rotary encoder sequences (in a 16R4) in the early '90s, and I think this was also in the free version. Might be there in free versions of Quartus.

David
Thanks for the info. I have previously used MAXplusII a long time ago / have many of the Altera CD-ROM's with this on, when I used it for programming the IC's and looking at the AGDL / schematics others had created in this.

But I hadn't realised they would support (generic?) PAL's in this - I was only aware of their earlier EP600/900 PLD's, that I recently realised I'd used the Intel equivalent back in the early 90's at Uni (for making BCD to 7-segment encoder etc from the course Lab-work?).

I had been intending to have a go with Quartus sometime, to learn more about VHDL with the Altera DE0 Nano board etc, So may have a look at that, if I can find enough space for an install!
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Old 29th Mar 2024, 2:50 pm   #5
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Default Re: GAL16V8 etc .EQN file 'Assembler' that runs natively on 32/64bit Windows ?

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Originally Posted by Phil__G View Post
I think what you're looking for is WinCUPL Owen, from Microchips site.
Personally I dont use it, I'd like to but I havent had time to learn it, so I use EQN2JED from the galasm suite under DOSbox.
I posted it here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...37#post1570137

.
Yes, I did mention WinCUPL, but had been a bit put-off from trying this by others saying it was a very old Windows user-interface and was prone to crashing / wouldn't run properly on later versions of windows (Win 10 at least, so people had to use VM's to run older versions of Windows).

It also seems that the syntax for PAL/GAL equation files isn't that 'standard' and you need to change it for different tools. Whereas I thought it would be good to use the same as what others had been using here, in order to share source-files.


I was at first a little confused when you said the EQN2JED utility you'd been using was from the GALasm suite, as I'd already tried GALasm.exe / GALasm.com and had no joy.
But after a little searching for 'EQN2JED', I discovered a 'GAL-ASM-Starterkit' pdf manual: https://www.mikrocontroller.net/atta...kit_Manual.pdf
- Reading this, it's really just a copy of the original documentation for the 'OPAL Jr.' software disk, that basically consists of EQN2JED, JED2EQN & PAL2GAL programs (plus a DEVICE.LIB text file with parameters for each of the supported PAL/GAL devices).
And fittingly, I discovered that National Semiconductor (as we're using it with the SC/MP) were the creators of this (Although I hadn't realised they made GAL's as well as PAL's)

Finding a copy of EQN2JED / OPAL can be a little bit tricky, but I eventually discovered a link to Opaljr21 at: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retroc...m/opaljr21.zip
(from this useful discussion: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?th...art-6.1069767/ )

I hadn't used DOSbox for a while, but downloaded the latest version and installed it on Win7 64bit, where EQN2JED.EXE then all ran OK, once I'd done a 'mount' of the the drive it was on in DOSbox.
Whilst in this, I did also retry the pre-compiled binaries of GALasm I'd found. But GALasm.exe complained it was a 32bit application, so it wouldn't run on DOSbox that is 16bit only. And GALasm.COM still reported Insufficient Memory (even though typing 'Mem' in DOSbox shows > 600K + 15MB Extended)

I've now also tried EQN2JED under WinXP 32bit, and that does run directly, without requiring DOSbox that you need for 64bit Windows versions to run 16bit programs.


Only one slight issue with EQN2JED is that the GAL18V10 I was planning to try,doesn't seem to be supported in this 'V101' 1993? version of EQN2JED from OPALjr21. (Maybe NS never made one of these, Only Lattice etc?)

Under GAL's, only the 16V8, 20V8 GAL6001, GAL20RA10 and GAL22V10
And under PAL's, only one PAL18xx device - the PAL18L4
(Looking in the DEVICE.LIB filer, It seem's it doesn't care whether a device is a PAL or GAL and that prefix isn't in there - just the digits following this (although GAL's are usually GALxxVx)

But maybe I can find a later version / hack the DEVICE.LIB to include support for a GAL18V10?
Although at least I can use it to try and make a new version using the GAL16V8, that I've re-arranged the pins slightly on the MGH8060R mod-ed version, to free-up an Output-capable pin for driving an LED etc. And also connected the remaining spare input pins to D6 & D7 + A10.

I wonder if Lattice ever did any equivalent to EQN2JED etc? (They used to provide free software for their CPLD/FPGA's etc.)

Last edited by ortek_service; 29th Mar 2024 at 2:57 pm.
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Old 31st Mar 2024, 2:30 pm   #6
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Default Re: GAL16V8 etc .EQN file 'Assembler' that runs natively on 32/64bit Windows ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortek_service View Post
Finding a copy of EQN2JED / OPAL can be a little bit tricky, but I eventually discovered a link to Opaljr21 at: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retroc...m/opaljr21.zip
That is the one we've been using Owen
It wont run in a CMD window for me though, as my lappy and the work PC are both Win10 so I have to use DOSbox
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 7:50 am   #7
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Default Re: GAL16V8 etc .EQN file 'Assembler' that runs natively on 32/64bit Windows ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil__G View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ortek_service View Post
Finding a copy of EQN2JED / OPAL can be a little bit tricky, but I eventually discovered a link to Opaljr21 at: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retroc...m/opaljr21.zip
That is the one we've been using Owen
It wont run in a CMD window for me though, as my lappy and the work PC are both Win10 so I have to use DOSbox
Well there were early 32bit versions of Win10 - I think that's what someone had retrospectively installed on a Laptop I got cheap from a Radio Rally(but it ran really slowly, so haven't used it since I picked up one that natively had Win7 64bit and ran somewhat better).
However it seems 32bit Win10 was killed-off (on new PC's at least), a few years ago - It did strike me as strange to ever supply 32bit Win10, when it wouldn't support much more than 3GB RAM.

With Win10, you could install the Linux WSL(2) subsystem, and maybe run a Command Line version complied for that (like GALasm, compiled under gcc or GALette if gcc includes rust - but probably not much-less effort than running DOSbox.

If you find a Windows compiler that will produce 32bit (or 64bit?) Command line programs for running from Windows Command Shell etc. then you could probably compile GALasm from the (fixed-version) source (or maybe even GALette)

I might have to look at an alternative to EQN2JED for the (Lattice-Only?) GAL18V10, as it seems NS never made these - Only Lattice (who were originators of the GAL), with NS (and ST?) a second source for these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_Array_Logic
- I learnt from there that the Altera apparently did the first CMOS 'PAL: the EP300, I haven't heard of before. So maybe that's what MAXplus-II supported.

I have now successfully reassembled a hacked version of the MGH8060R / combined with the MGH22V10.EQN file. So just need to complete addition of a DlyFlag LE to test this version, and share that on here along with pictures of modification wires etc - as an Interim until I the GAL18V10's I ordered arrive / I find a way of producing .JED files for those, to gain another output over the GAL16V8.
I presume Lattice must have provided suitable GAL assembler software at some point, that supported the GAL18V10, so will have to look into that - Maybe it used different syntax to EQN2JED / GALasm / GALette, so not compatible with the same source files?

Last edited by ortek_service; 2nd Apr 2024 at 7:55 am.
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