Unknown Pye (car) radio?

[AlanBeckett]

Hi,
This is another of my oddball Pye radios. I sort of collect old(ish) Pyes, and this one looked 'interesting.
I'm guessing that it's 'half' of a car radio. I think there should be a PSU/speaker to go with it. Also, there's a nice big lug on each side to mount it under(?) the dash. The valves are EF8, ECH3(guess, missing), EBF2, EBF2and EL2. There's no output transformer which supports the theory that there should be another 'box'. At the back there's something missing, either a socket or a cable clamp I would think. Near to it there is a tag strip with what looks like filter components, with a dog-end of tatty cable attached. The valve heaters and the pilot bulb are connected in a series/parallel arrangement which would match the '12volts' on the label. It's all very solidly built. The top and bottom are a very tight fit. The tuning drive is friction. I think there should be long bolts or studs in the top/bottom corners to hold it all together. The inner chassis is rubber mounted, as is the tuning gang. Of course, all the rubber bushes have perished - I found a couple of corpses inside. From the valves I would guess it just pre or possibly just post WWII.
So, has anyone come across anything like it? or have any info?
Cheers
Alan

[murphyv310]

Hi.
The up market cars in the post war era were often offered with the option of a radio. But so many were 6 volt, although again there was often 6 & 12 volt cars offered by the the same manufacturer.
My dad had a 1949 Ford V8 Pilot that had a radio as standard fitting and that was 6 volts. Its Radio had two knobs fitted which had long spindles that came through to the dash, it had switched presets whch could be set after removing the speaker and grille, the set was housed in a good quality crackle finished metal case, rather buzzy though from the viabrator.
I would suspect though whats missing from your set would be the o/p transformer, viabrator and smoothing, and as you suggest with the valve line up possibly prewar.
Nice piece of very rare history.
Trevor

[AlanBeckett]

Trever,
That sounds plausible. The original post had photos attached. The site says they're being 'processed'. If they haven't appeared soon I'll have another go.
Alan

[AlanBeckett]

I've had another go at uploading the pictures!

[AlanBeckett]

There's one other oddity I noticed, which may help to date it. Although the measured values of the resistors match the colour codes none of them are standard E12 values.

['LIVEWIRE?']

My guess is that it's pre-war, mainly due to the valve line-up, and the fact that the tuning dial seems to show 'Hilversum' on LW. As the plate on the back states, it's a Type 824, and it should have a second part with the O/P Transformer, Vibrator, etc. I have quite a few service sheets for PYE car radios, but none going back that far, sorry. Perhaps one of these may be able to supply one.www.shopingathome.com

[Mike Phelan]

Definitely pre-war. Appears to have an RF stage as well - witness the EF8 and three gang sections, and the resistor values.

FWIW, the first radio fitted to a car as standard dates from 1934 - the Hillman Melody Minx.

Devising a power supply (with or without a vibrator) should not be too much of a problem.

[AlanBeckett]

Well, we all seem to be on the same wavelength. I had a search round the ususal suspects for info but no luck. The vintage Car Radio site is having a look but no reply yet. I fear they might be more enthusiastic if I turned up with it and said 'fix it' - no chance. I agree that the design is very probably pre-war although it may have been produced after as well. The valves were introduced in the mid to late '30s. However, I expect set manufacturers could get samples before they were generally available. As I understand it no car radios (domestic) were produced during the war so it was possibly an easy option to start making a pre-war design again.
So, what I propose to do is get an ECH3, carefully extract the chassis, work out the PSU and speaker connections connections - I'm pretty sure they'll be on the tag strip at the back - and fire it up. I agree there's no real problem with a PSU at this stage. However, what should the ht be? The valve data implies about 200. However, I haven't had any dealings with these side contact valves before.

[Alan Stepney]

From memory of the few vibrator powered radios I saw, they seemed to have HT that was just under 200 volts, 180-ish seems to ring a bell.

I know that for test purposes, we would grab a couple of 90v batteries and hook them in series.

[AlanBeckett]

Alan,
Splendid, thanks.
I always think it's better to have some numbers from previous experience instead of a guess. I can't get an ECH3 for about 10 days so I'll have time to get thinhs organised.
Alan

[AlanBeckett]

I've removed the chassis - see attached.
It wasn't as bad as I'd feared. The back of the outer case was held on with four screws. So, taking the knobs off (not too bad, but the usual panics) and the dial enabled it to be 'withrawn'. The only real problem was that the aerial coax braid was soldered to the outer case in the corner. I'm not sure how they managed that. They must have had a very big iron and been very quick! Anyway, I cut ot off for now as it will need replacing anyway. Now I can see eveything more sensibly I more think it's pre-war. Some of the insulation is very brittle, especially the O/P grid wire, front right. Below the tag strip at the back are what appear to be filter components - Ls and Cs - which would be logical for a car radio. The right-hand one is chassis. The left-hand one appears to be heaters, which are fed through the on/off switch. There's a bit of an anomoly there as I get some readings at varous points with the valves and pilot bulb out - leaky decoupling on the heater lines? The next two 'in' apear to be HT supplies. One is the EL2 anode so I suppose that should go to an output transformer. The centre one, which has the corpse of a piece of coax attached, is a mistery at the moment. The end of the caax has half a plug attached just like the aerial coax, so perhaps it's an alternative, but that seams a bit odd. It's an absolute pig to trace anything physically due to the component density under the chassis and my reluctance to push things about. Also, every last spare valve connection appears to have been used as an anchor point.
So, does any of that jog anyone's memory?

[AlanBeckett]

Success!
Despite my pessimism above Adrian James at Classic Car Radios has come up with the goods, in fact the full Monty. It looks as though I only got one thing really wrong. The mixer should be EK2 not ECH3. That's potentially not good as EK2s are pretty thin on the ground, and that was the one that was missing. However, I think that puts the design at 1938 as after that ECH3 was available, and I can't imagine anyone wouldn't have used it if it was available. I haven't done much more since my last Post, apart from trying to work out what was what. It's all a bit delecate and very cramped, so I'm being very careful. I've already had to change a couple of wires because the rubber insulation just disintegrated as soon as I touched it. I'm also going to change all the electrolytics (they're coming to bits) and the wax paper caps. Then, with a bit of luck, and an EK2, I can gently light it up.
So, before shutting down, at least in this section, a couple of last requests.
I haven't got a valve tester (yet) so is there any kind soul within striking distance of Burton-on-Trent who could test my valves?
Second, EK2 is pretty thin on the ground, and EF8 pretty well non-existant. Does anyone have a secret stash of these old codgers, or know anyone who has? I've no problem buying them, it's locating them that's the problem.
Alan

[shaftbox]

Hi Alan
you have a PM

cheers Mike

[AlanBeckett]

Mike,
Thanks for the info.
I've sent you a reply.
Alan

[AlanBeckett]

Mods.
I think this thread has run its course. I have the information and I'm afraid no-one has admitted having a valve tester near to me. I'm going to have to buy one, which is probably a good thing anyway. If you care to start a new thread about its ongoing refurbishment, which I've started, then I'll post an (intermittent) running commentry. You never know, another one may come out of the woodwork.

[Oldtimer74]

The fact that car radios were not produced in the war (at least not in this country) is not surprising as it was a serious criminal offence to have a radio of ANY sort, working or not, in a car for much of the war
Pat G3IKR

[AlanBeckett]

Pat,
That's what I understood. Having made a start on 'fettling' it I've found that some of the SM caps have 'Made in Austria' stamped on them. I think that puts it pre-war as I doubt if there were many imports from there immediately post-war.
Alan

[Brian R Pateman]

In accordance with Alan's request in post No. 15 I'll close this thread now.

We'll look forward to seeing it in "Success Stories" in due course.

Regards,