110/127 volt Philips - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

humphrey · 11th Jan 2009, 5:57 pm

I have a Spanish Philips BE231U that needs converting to use on 230v. Is dropper cable still available, or a better way suggested. The label does not indicate dc or ac.

Paul Stenning · 11th Jan 2009, 6:07 pm

The U on the end of the number means it is a "universal" (AC or DC) set.

Dropper cable isn't available now. I would use a small external 230V-115V transformer and keep the set original. If you want to do something within the set then consider a capacitor dropper for the heaters and a resistor dropper for the HT.

You can't really use a capacitor dropper for the whole set as the HT part of the current is only on the positive half cycles, and indeed the peaks of them. Also the current will vary as the set warms up which means the heaters would be over-run until the HT comes up.

paulsherwin · 11th Jan 2009, 6:11 pm

I agree, a small autotransformer is the way to go. These are widely available in the UK and Europe and are used to operate US appliances from 230V. They aren't expensive.

Paul

georgesgiralt · 12th Jan 2009, 6:25 pm

Hi !
As you have an AC/DC set, choose a transformer and not an auto-transformer ( a 230V self with a tapping at 110 V ).
This way, and if the transformer is well sized you'll get galvanic isolation from the mains...
I own an old 110 V AC/DC set (Radialva Super AS of 1946 vintage) and I've got a few bites from the auto transformer I got when France switched from 110 V to 220 V mains...

GeorgSc · 15th Jan 2009, 8:00 pm

Hello Georges,

Quote:

...when France switched from 110 V to 220 V mains...

When did that happen?
I thought that France was 220 Volt from the beginning of AC!
Regards
Georg

georgesgiralt · 15th Jan 2009, 8:27 pm

I can't remember exactly as I was a kid but I will say in the early sixties, maybe 65.
Earlier, until WWII electricity production was done locally on big cities. And there where different companies and different systems. Some AC some DC. But nothing above 120 V.
At the edn of WWII there was the creation of EDF a state run company having exclusive right of transportation of electricity. So this ended slowly DC mains. And in the early 60's, they switched to 220 V to reduce line loss. (by reduced current).
In France you were allowed to produce your electricity but if you needed to transport it, even on a few meters, outside your building, you where supposed to sell it to EDf and buy it back from them. A lot of factories had their own production and this sheme slowly make it impractical for them to maintaain.
Then in the 90's as we began to have shortage of electricity during the coldest days of winter, EDF asked some companies to be able to produce electricity. They asked them cleverly by offering a tariff with which electricity was dirty cheap except for a few days in the year when it was at a huge price. The companies began to buy big diesel engines to drive big alternators and ran diesel these days ....
Funny, isn't it ?

GeorgSc · 15th Jan 2009, 11:29 pm

Hello,
the story is rather similar, but about 10-20 years earlier,
here in Germany. The last small towns with 110 Volt AC
got 220 in early 50ties. We lived in such a town 1953,
I still remind a little bit of that action. Motors in vacuum
cleaners were changed or got new coils. Radios were
brought to a radio store where someone changed
the voltage setting.
But there were only very few of such appliances at that time.
Most households at that time had some lamps, a radio and
a iron maybe. Poor times!
Georg

georgesgiralt · 16th Jan 2009, 12:13 am

Well in France, it was planned for years.
The household appliance sold before the switch had to have a dual setting, 100 and 220 V.
It was common for radio or tv sets but nos so for heaters or hair driers (I still use a small hair drier of that era in my photographic darkroom). Even the neighbour's coffe grinder was dual voltage ! (I remind being given the dead grinder because when someone cleaned it it inadvertently switched it to 110 V... )
Devices which were unable to be converted were supplied with step down transformer to allow them to run. A huge contract for the transformer maker ...

GeorgSc · 16th Jan 2009, 11:38 am

I got a 110 Volt AC motor from a vacuum cleaner
and a at that time already old bulb with a carbon filament.
Together with a transformer from an old radio
this was a start in electric tinkering . I was about 8 then.
Georg

humphrey · 20th Jan 2009, 2:43 pm

As the radio is for AC/DC, would it not be possible to put a rectifier into the 220v supply?

GeorgSc · 20th Jan 2009, 9:57 pm

Hello Humphrey,
You think cutting one half of the waves away makes half the voltage?
Mhhhmm, to be honest, I thought the same a long time :=(
Reality is, that that makes half of the power, which means
about 70.7 % of the voltage (RMS)
Regards
Georg

11th Jan 2009, 5:57 pm	#1
humphrey Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bellac, 87. France. Posts: 357	110/127 volt Philips I have a Spanish Philips BE231U that needs converting to use on 230v. Is dropper cable still available, or a better way suggested. The label does not indicate dc or ac.

11th Jan 2009, 6:07 pm	#2
Paul Stenning Administrator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cardiff Posts: 9,071	Re: 110/127 volt Philips The U on the end of the number means it is a "universal" (AC or DC) set. Dropper cable isn't available now. I would use a small external 230V-115V transformer and keep the set original. If you want to do something within the set then consider a capacitor dropper for the heaters and a resistor dropper for the HT. You can't really use a capacitor dropper for the whole set as the HT part of the current is only on the positive half cycles, and indeed the peaks of them. Also the current will vary as the set warms up which means the heaters would be over-run until the HT comes up. __________________ Paul Stenning Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster

11th Jan 2009, 6:11 pm	#3
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,944	Re: 110/127 volt Philips I agree, a small autotransformer is the way to go. These are widely available in the UK and Europe and are used to operate US appliances from 230V. They aren't expensive. Paul

12th Jan 2009, 6:25 pm	#4
georgesgiralt Hexode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toulouse, France Posts: 406	Re: 110/127 volt Philips Hi ! As you have an AC/DC set, choose a transformer and not an auto-transformer ( a 230V self with a tapping at 110 V ). This way, and if the transformer is well sized you'll get galvanic isolation from the mains... I own an old 110 V AC/DC set (Radialva Super AS of 1946 vintage) and I've got a few bites from the auto transformer I got when France switched from 110 V to 220 V mains...

15th Jan 2009, 8:27 pm	#6
georgesgiralt Hexode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toulouse, France Posts: 406	Re: 110/127 volt Philips I can't remember exactly as I was a kid but I will say in the early sixties, maybe 65. Earlier, until WWII electricity production was done locally on big cities. And there where different companies and different systems. Some AC some DC. But nothing above 120 V. At the edn of WWII there was the creation of EDF a state run company having exclusive right of transportation of electricity. So this ended slowly DC mains. And in the early 60's, they switched to 220 V to reduce line loss. (by reduced current). In France you were allowed to produce your electricity but if you needed to transport it, even on a few meters, outside your building, you where supposed to sell it to EDf and buy it back from them. A lot of factories had their own production and this sheme slowly make it impractical for them to maintaain. Then in the 90's as we began to have shortage of electricity during the coldest days of winter, EDF asked some companies to be able to produce electricity. They asked them cleverly by offering a tariff with which electricity was dirty cheap except for a few days in the year when it was at a huge price. The companies began to buy big diesel engines to drive big alternators and ran diesel these days .... Funny, isn't it ?

15th Jan 2009, 11:29 pm	#7
GeorgSc Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Palatinate Posts: 87	Re: 110/127 volt Philips Hello, the story is rather similar, but about 10-20 years earlier, here in Germany. The last small towns with 110 Volt AC got 220 in early 50ties. We lived in such a town 1953, I still remind a little bit of that action. Motors in vacuum cleaners were changed or got new coils. Radios were brought to a radio store where someone changed the voltage setting. But there were only very few of such appliances at that time. Most households at that time had some lamps, a radio and a iron maybe. Poor times! Georg

16th Jan 2009, 12:13 am	#8
georgesgiralt Hexode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toulouse, France Posts: 406	Re: 110/127 volt Philips Well in France, it was planned for years. The household appliance sold before the switch had to have a dual setting, 100 and 220 V. It was common for radio or tv sets but nos so for heaters or hair driers (I still use a small hair drier of that era in my photographic darkroom). Even the neighbour's coffe grinder was dual voltage ! (I remind being given the dead grinder because when someone cleaned it it inadvertently switched it to 110 V... ) Devices which were unable to be converted were supplied with step down transformer to allow them to run. A huge contract for the transformer maker ...

16th Jan 2009, 11:38 am	#9
GeorgSc Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Palatinate Posts: 87	Re: 110/127 volt Philips I got a 110 Volt AC motor from a vacuum cleaner and a at that time already old bulb with a carbon filament. Together with a transformer from an old radio this was a start in electric tinkering . I was about 8 then. Georg

20th Jan 2009, 2:43 pm	#10
humphrey Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bellac, 87. France. Posts: 357	Re: 110/127 volt Philips As the radio is for AC/DC, would it not be possible to put a rectifier into the 220v supply?

20th Jan 2009, 9:57 pm	#11
GeorgSc Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Palatinate Posts: 87	Re: 110/127 volt Philips Hello Humphrey, You think cutting one half of the waves away makes half the voltage? Mhhhmm, to be honest, I thought the same a long time :=( Reality is, that that makes half of the power, which means about 70.7 % of the voltage (RMS) Regards Georg