Ultra 6018 auto change record deck - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Philcal · 29th Nov 2021, 1:13 am

Hi folks. I've been handed down a 1960's Ultra 6018 auto change record deck. I need to replace the cartridge and needle. I can identify the needle as LPS ST9D on one side and SD 8 78 on the other side. I'm not so lucky with the cartridge as the data is worn. I've used a magnifier though, and I'm pretty sure it says CONDOR TA950. I've searched for info on google and it does appear that the original cartridge for this model (not to be confused with the Ultra 6018B) is a BSR C1. I can't see any such number on the cartridge, only the reference I have given. It could have been worn away, of course. I just wondered whether anyone knows what the correct replacement is please.

Edward Huggins · 29th Nov 2021, 9:39 am

The Autochanger in yours is a late model BSR C141 (?) series. You can use a BSR SC11M or SC12H stereo cartridge. That Condor will be a replacement for the original BSR cartridge - neither of whch are now available. You can also use one of the cheaper generic "Red Ceramic Stereo" Chinese cartridges which are available from a number of online sellers, but it will need to come with a standard 1/2" mount or it will be a faff for you to easily fit it.

Philcal · 29th Nov 2021, 10:03 pm

Thanks Edward. I really appreciate that. Would you know what the difference is between the sc11 and the sc12 please?

Philcal · 29th Nov 2021, 10:30 pm

Hello again Edward. I've just had a look at the 2 cartridges you recommend. I zoomed in and noticed that they have flat pins rather than the round ones on the cartridge I have. Are they going to fit the sockets?

ben · 29th Nov 2021, 10:50 pm

Alll the 6018s I've seen have been fitted with a BSR UA15-SS5G deck.

If the cartridge is a C1, this would have come with a BSR ST4 or ST3, these were superseded by the ST12/14/15. Choose the ST15 if you have no 78s rpm discs as that will give you two tips for vinyl.

However you say there's an ST9 in the cart you now have. That's a low compliance stylus for higher output carts so perhaps someone has erroneously fitted the wrong one.

Some close ups of the cart would be useful to clear this up.

As Edward says you can also use a whole new ceramic cart with medium output here. But what you have might still be okay.

Philcal · 30th Nov 2021, 7:45 pm

Thanks Ben. Much appreciated. I'm thinking now that I'll try a new needle first. The cartridge does look reasonable, and I think the needle has been broken since last time I tried the deck a month or so ago. It was ok then and had full sound. Now the sound is there, but barely audible (when I manage to keep the needle in the groove - mostly it skates). Would a badly worn or broken needle or a faulty cartridge cause that loss of sound, do you think? Or does it sound like a problem inside with the amplifier?

Edward Huggins · 30th Nov 2021, 9:25 pm

A worn stylus does not necessarily mean a loss of sound, but will give poor quality sound. Try playing another sound source through the one of the spare input socket as the rear of the control panel. If you get good and clear sound, then the fault will most likely be the cartridge/stylus combination - which brings us back to where we started.

ben · 30th Nov 2021, 11:00 pm

If the stylus skates then you definitely have a problem, sounds like its tip is damaged. The replacements are generally cheap, under a tenner, so it would be worth a try. First try flipping it over to the other tip, though.

Post a photo of the cartridge. It might be that the rubber 'ears' that support the stylus shank have crumbled. We also still need to work out what the right stylus is.

If your deck is like the one in the picture and the stylus has come into contact with the rotating rubber mat with all its ridges, (e.g. missed the edge of a 7" single), then it will almost certainly have been damaged. I will never understand why some designers make mats like that which are capable of destroying a stylus in an instant!

hayerjoe · 3rd Dec 2021, 10:30 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben

If the stylus skates then you definitely have a problem, sounds like its tip is damaged. The replacements are generally cheap, under a tenner, so it would be worth a try. First try flipping it over to the other tip, though.

Post a photo of the cartridge. It might be that the rubber 'ears' that support the stylus shank have crumbled. We also still need to work out what the right stylus is.

If your deck is like the one in the picture and the stylus has come into contact with the rotating rubber mat with all its ridges, (e.g. missed the edge of a 7" single), then it will almost certainly have been damaged. I will never understand why some designers make mats like that which are capable of destroying a stylus in an instant!

Can you please show a close-up of the mat that's so destructive to styli. I'm assuming concentric circles is ok but anything like spokes of a wheel emanating from the centre would indeed be a disaster for a stylus... just thinking about that makes me wince!

ben · 3rd Dec 2021, 10:57 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayerjoe

Can you please show a close-up of the mat that's so destructive to styli. I'm assuming concentric circles is ok but anything like spokes of a wheel emanating from the centre would indeed be a disaster for a stylus... just thinking about that makes me wince!

Pic 1 shows one variant of the UA15SS mat. To be fair, it is far from the worst I've seen, as the spokes are close together, so at speed the stylus tip doesn't have chance to lodge in between them and get torn off. Still, far from ideal all the same.

The other pic is a later P163, with truly evil raised 'studs'! Garrard used something similar on their GT25/35!

hayerjoe · 3rd Dec 2021, 11:06 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayerjoe

Can you please show a close-up of the mat that's so destructive to styli. I'm assuming concentric circles is ok but anything like spokes of a wheel emanating from the centre would indeed be a disaster for a stylus... just thinking about that makes me wince!

Pic 1 shows one variant of the UA15SS mat. To be fair, it is far from the worst I've seen, as the spokes are close together, so at speed the stylus tip doesn't have chance to lodge in between them and get torn off. Still, far from ideal all the same.

The other pic is a later P163, with truly evil raised 'studs'! Garrard used something similar on their GT25/35!

ouch... style over function!

in fact not just the stylus at risk I reckon, the rubber suspension/yoke of the cartridge would be hammered. Fancy having to replace an entire cartridge because of the design of the platter mat!

Philcal · 3rd Dec 2021, 7:58 pm

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Hi Ben. I've been trying to attach two pics here. I thought I would see them come up as photo's but they appear to be links. The links don't produce the photo's when clicked by me, but maybe when I send they will work your end. New to here and learning.

Edward Huggins · 4th Dec 2021, 9:15 am

Well that's a BSR Stereo cartridge, but fitted with the wrong stylus. You need a BSR ST12 stylus assuming you will need to play both LPs and 78s? If not, please advise as there are other versions including a double-tipped LP type.

Philcal · 5th Dec 2021, 7:29 pm

That's great Edward. Firstly I'm pleased that the photo's materialised and, second, so pleased that you have been able to suggest a replacement. Yes, it does need to play LP's and 78's. I'll check that cartridge out. Thanks so much for your help Edward & Ben. Regards. Phil

Techman · 6th Dec 2021, 12:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Well that's a BSR Stereo cartridge, but fitted with the wrong stylus.

It might not be the wrong stylus. That could be a high output version of the cartridge which would therefore need that particular plastic shank version of the stylus as shown. Does the OP need a high output cartridge for his particular player?

Edward Huggins · 6th Dec 2021, 10:21 am

No. There is more than enough gain on the Thorn 5 transistor amplifier in this player for a medium-output cartridge. The thick plastic shanked stylus will not be well suited to any BSR medium-output cartridge of this period.

Philcal · 7th Dec 2021, 9:54 pm

Hi Edward. I don't know its history as it was handed down to my partner when her Mum died. The cartridge/needle in my photo was on it when it came to her this year. It was playing at first, and volume was ok. Sound was poor though. Sound went altogether suddenly after my Son in law cleaned it up. It would play for a few seconds, with no sound, then skate, which would be the needle issue. I would be happy if I just knew what complete replacement cartridge/needle to order. You kindly recommended two, but when I had a look at pictures of them they appear to have flat pins instead of the round ones which this one has. Have you any further ideas please since I posted the photo?

Edward Huggins · 8th Dec 2021, 8:51 am

Why don't you just replace the stylus as suggested in my Post #13?
You may be confusing a "Stylus" with a "Cartridge". My recommendation is for a BSR ST12 Stylus, easily sourced.

Philcal · 9th Dec 2021, 7:28 pm

Cheers Edward. I will go ahead with that first. Thank you.

ben · 10th Dec 2021, 12:03 am

Re: photos post 12. That plastic ST8 stylus would seem to be the right one, the cartridge looks like a clone of the BSR SX5H or similar. You can tell by the thick rubber 'ears' and the cartridge molding. An ST12, being a thinner shank, would have too much movement and mistrack.

In any case, it seems like the rubber ears are not straight but leaning towards the front of the cartridge, which would cause the stylus to retract into the cartridge body and this then skating over the disc.

I would simply replace that cart

29th Nov 2021, 9:39 am	#2
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck The Autochanger in yours is a late model BSR C141 (?) series. You can use a BSR SC11M or SC12H stereo cartridge. That Condor will be a replacement for the original BSR cartridge - neither of whch are now available. You can also use one of the cheaper generic "Red Ceramic Stereo" Chinese cartridges which are available from a number of online sellers, but it will need to come with a standard 1/2" mount or it will be a faff for you to easily fit it. __________________ Edward.

29th Nov 2021, 10:03 pm	#3
Philcal Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Thanks Edward. I really appreciate that. Would you know what the difference is between the sc11 and the sc12 please?

29th Nov 2021, 10:30 pm	#4
Philcal Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Hello again Edward. I've just had a look at the 2 cartridges you recommend. I zoomed in and noticed that they have flat pins rather than the round ones on the cartridge I have. Are they going to fit the sockets?

29th Nov 2021, 10:50 pm	#5
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Alll the 6018s I've seen have been fitted with a BSR UA15-SS5G deck. If the cartridge is a C1, this would have come with a BSR ST4 or ST3, these were superseded by the ST12/14/15. Choose the ST15 if you have no 78s rpm discs as that will give you two tips for vinyl. However you say there's an ST9 in the cart you now have. That's a low compliance stylus for higher output carts so perhaps someone has erroneously fitted the wrong one. Some close ups of the cart would be useful to clear this up. As Edward says you can also use a whole new ceramic cart with medium output here. But what you have might still be okay. __________________ Regards, Ben.

30th Nov 2021, 7:45 pm	#6
Philcal Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Thanks Ben. Much appreciated. I'm thinking now that I'll try a new needle first. The cartridge does look reasonable, and I think the needle has been broken since last time I tried the deck a month or so ago. It was ok then and had full sound. Now the sound is there, but barely audible (when I manage to keep the needle in the groove - mostly it skates). Would a badly worn or broken needle or a faulty cartridge cause that loss of sound, do you think? Or does it sound like a problem inside with the amplifier?

29th Nov 2021, 1:13 am	#1
Philcal Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Hi folks. I've been handed down a 1960's Ultra 6018 auto change record deck. I need to replace the cartridge and needle. I can identify the needle as LPS ST9D on one side and SD 8 78 on the other side. I'm not so lucky with the cartridge as the data is worn. I've used a magnifier though, and I'm pretty sure it says CONDOR TA950. I've searched for info on google and it does appear that the original cartridge for this model (not to be confused with the Ultra 6018B) is a BSR C1. I can't see any such number on the cartridge, only the reference I have given. It could have been worn away, of course. I just wondered whether anyone knows what the correct replacement is please.

30th Nov 2021, 9:25 pm	#7
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck A worn stylus does not necessarily mean a loss of sound, but will give poor quality sound. Try playing another sound source through the one of the spare input socket as the rear of the control panel. If you get good and clear sound, then the fault will most likely be the cartridge/stylus combination - which brings us back to where we started. __________________ Edward.

30th Nov 2021, 11:00 pm	#8
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck If the stylus skates then you definitely have a problem, sounds like its tip is damaged. The replacements are generally cheap, under a tenner, so it would be worth a try. First try flipping it over to the other tip, though. Post a photo of the cartridge. It might be that the rubber 'ears' that support the stylus shank have crumbled. We also still need to work out what the right stylus is. If your deck is like the one in the picture and the stylus has come into contact with the rotating rubber mat with all its ridges, (e.g. missed the edge of a 7" single), then it will almost certainly have been damaged. I will never understand why some designers make mats like that which are capable of destroying a stylus in an instant! Attached Thumbnails __________________ Regards, Ben.

3rd Dec 2021, 7:58 pm	#12
Philcal Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Hi Ben. I've been trying to attach two pics here. I thought I would see them come up as photo's but they appear to be links. The links don't produce the photo's when clicked by me, but maybe when I send they will work your end. New to here and learning.

4th Dec 2021, 9:15 am	#13
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Well that's a BSR Stereo cartridge, but fitted with the wrong stylus. You need a BSR ST12 stylus assuming you will need to play both LPs and 78s? If not, please advise as there are other versions including a double-tipped LP type. __________________ Edward.

5th Dec 2021, 7:29 pm	#14
Philcal Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck That's great Edward. Firstly I'm pleased that the photo's materialised and, second, so pleased that you have been able to suggest a replacement. Yes, it does need to play LP's and 78's. I'll check that cartridge out. Thanks so much for your help Edward & Ben. Regards. Phil

6th Dec 2021, 10:21 am	#16
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck No. There is more than enough gain on the Thorn 5 transistor amplifier in this player for a medium-output cartridge. The thick plastic shanked stylus will not be well suited to any BSR medium-output cartridge of this period. __________________ Edward.

7th Dec 2021, 9:54 pm	#17
Philcal Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Hi Edward. I don't know its history as it was handed down to my partner when her Mum died. The cartridge/needle in my photo was on it when it came to her this year. It was playing at first, and volume was ok. Sound was poor though. Sound went altogether suddenly after my Son in law cleaned it up. It would play for a few seconds, with no sound, then skate, which would be the needle issue. I would be happy if I just knew what complete replacement cartridge/needle to order. You kindly recommended two, but when I had a look at pictures of them they appear to have flat pins instead of the round ones which this one has. Have you any further ideas please since I posted the photo?

8th Dec 2021, 8:51 am	#18
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Why don't you just replace the stylus as suggested in my Post #13? You may be confusing a "Stylus" with a "Cartridge". My recommendation is for a BSR ST12 Stylus, easily sourced. __________________ Edward.

9th Dec 2021, 7:28 pm	#19
Philcal Diode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Pocklington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 8	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Cheers Edward. I will go ahead with that first. Thank you.

10th Dec 2021, 12:03 am	#20
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Ultra 6018 auto change record deck Re: photos post 12. That plastic ST8 stylus would seem to be the right one, the cartridge looks like a clone of the BSR SX5H or similar. You can tell by the thick rubber 'ears' and the cartridge molding. An ST12, being a thinner shank, would have too much movement and mistrack. In any case, it seems like the rubber ears are not straight but leaning towards the front of the cartridge, which would cause the stylus to retract into the cartridge body and this then skating over the disc. I would simply replace that cart __________________ Regards, Ben.