What happens when VOIP main phone line comes in?

[Stockden]

Originally Posted by stitch1

Looks like there's a UPS option available ...

https://www.bt.com/help/landline/fib...ery-back-up-un

John

It's worth noting that, acording to that link, the BBU only provides power for an hour ("This means you will still be able to make and receive calls for up to an hour"). That may be fine for a short power outage but perhaps not if you live in a remote area where power restoration may take some time.

Hugh

[Boulevardier]

Originally Posted by Stockden

It's worth noting that, acording to that link, the BBU only provides power for an hour ("This means you will still be able to make and receive calls for up to an hour"). That may be fine for a short power outage but perhaps not if you live in a remote area where power restoration may take some time.

Hugh

Also, "...up to an hour." doesn't sound too promising...

[Valvepower]

Hello,

I’ve recently moved an old coper line over to VoIP. I use dedicated VoIP phone directly connected to the Dray Tek router via an ethernet cable. The phone has its own wall wart power supply.

So far so good...

The VoIP settings are accessed and managed by accessing the Andrews & Arnold Control Pages on their server.

Andrews & Arnold did all the back-room stuff, and all I did was instruct them and they did the rest of the porting etc. I have no connection to Andrews & Arnold etc., etc.

The way things have panned out I have ended up with my late parents’ telephone number, and I still clearly remember the GPO gentleman, in his Moggy Van, installing this line and telephone at the house my parents had just down the road back in 1966.

So, here I am 57 years later having got it ‘ported’ to the Internet. I had one of those moments where you look back some 57 years and this sort of ‘rocket science’ would have been the kind ‘a stuff you’d have seen on Tomorrow World or read about in a TV21 Comic!

Terry

[Radio Wrangler]

It is also feasible that the switching requirements could be implemented as a group of cabinets distributed around the area. If the existing FTTC cabinets no longer have to house VDSL interfaces then I'd expect them to get used.

David

[Pellseinydd]

BT have already sold off all their buildings and only lease back what they require - leased to about 2027?
I went to an internal only Openreach for staf from the South East of England in 2019 attended by over one thousand staff plusdirectors where the future was discussed. It was mentioned the coming of FTTP by 2025 but was also looking at other methods of delivery including 5G. I was there with my GPO Moriis Minor Engineers van plus a working display of working telephones back to the early days.

With reference to pulse dialing. We enthusiast have over the last fifteen years built up a large network working over VoIP with thousands of pulse dialling phones connected in addition to former GPO Strowger exchanges, PABXs and PAXs using the UK's old Subscriber Trunk Dialling and local codes. I have something like 150+ lines off my system terminating all over the UK and the World with the most distant in Christchurch New Zealand. Even British Telecom have some lines from my system as they found an old Strowger PABXs in Leicester Exchange in 2019 all powered up ready to go but not handled a call since 1985 when staff were given mobiles! The PABX has been moved to Holborn exchange in London and they wanted to put the original Leicester numbers on it.

But modern Lecicester numbers are 0117 XXX-XXXX whereas in 1985 it would have been 0533 XXXXX ! Hence came to our network which is free to join & use! Even to New Zealand.

[IOWPhoneGuy]

Something to remember is that the copper network isn't going away just yet, but is the trad PSTN "analogue" service over those wires that is going. It is already gone in many places - its not all happening at once in two years. Much has been altered already with the rest being phased in over the next couple of years. So, when you are changed over you will quite likely keep your NTE 5 box and copper wires. Until, that is, you are changed over to fibre to the premises.

I am on BT and the service was changed for me over a year ago. It all happened remotely - no one came to change anything and no new hardware was sent to me. All that happened was that I had to take a label off the BT431 socket on the back of the Home Hub router and plug my phone system into it rather than my NTE 5. The conversion happened overnight. I didn't need to know or change any settings or anything; it just happened. For a day I had two connections, the old analogue and the digital one and, if I remember rightly, I could dial out on both, but only the digital, router one, rang. The router is, of course, powered from my mains. It may well be that there is no DC on the line to power anything.

Therefore all I had to do was rearrange my phone wiring. The broadband, including its connection via the existing copper wiring and NTE box were unchanged.

The BT routers do not support pulse dialling. Apparently some Virgin ones do. It would be best to assume that you will loose pulse dialling support on changeover, and whenever a new router is installed. Recent separate ATAs (Analogue Telephone Adaptors) used for generic VoIP, generally don't support pulse dialling, only some older models do.

I don't use a pulse to tone dialling convertor. Instead I have, and have had for several years, a Panasonic KXTA-624 exchange which accepts both pulse and tone dialling on its extension lines. I connect all my heritage telephones to it. It converts to tone (selectable) for its external lines, of which one goes into my router. I also have a now old but usable 1990s Binatone tone dialling phone connected directly to my router.

Following the realisation of the scale and scope of power issues, there has reportedly been a pause in the roll out of BTs Digital Voice (their VoIP offering). Yes backup power is an issue, and a clearly a bigger one than was first thought. Though to be fair it has been for some time as much of the equipment in cabinets - I am told my copper apparently terminated there, down the road, with fibre onwards.

The backup power problem is, of course, also an issue with fibre, if not more so. I live in a town in a rural area but I am by no means remote and this is not a big issue for me personally. Even mobile, which would work for a few hours, would be go down in an extended power loss.

[Dave Moll]

Originally Posted by IOWPhoneGuy

It may well be that there is no DC on the line to power anything.

Surely, no telephone (other than an LB one) will work without DC line voltage. Agreed there may be less current available for anything beyond a basic telephone (such as my line-powered Vanguard 10E telephones with loudspeaking monitor facility).

[Tim]

The main reason the change to VOIP is happening is the manufacturers of the current PSTN exchanges( System X and AXE10, Philips/Plessey and Ericsson respectively) are ending support in 2025. The “ new” digital exchanges were installed in the 90’s so are now about 30 years old.
It’s true the more modern equipment will occupy less space, but exchanges will still be required for the optic head end equipment, interfacing, and some OLO equipment.

In a lot of cases existing copper lines can be used for “ Broadband only” service, it’s just the “traditional “ dial tone and DC voltage that will disappear. The master socket will be retained in this case, as it acts as a termination for the broadband, and gives something for the test system to detect when running a line test. That’s how Telco’s know whether a line is reaching the customer.
Most telcos will probably deliver dial tone/telephone compatibility from the router. If you need to have phones elsewhere in the house then a small mod if can be made to the master socket and the new dial tone fed back into your home wiring. A common and simple way to do this would be to use a cord with a phone plug on each end.

[dagskarlsen]

Here in Norway the copper wires are removed. If you do not have fiber, you have to use mobile. You have to take the cost by yourselves. Alarms for elderly people... Civil defense alarm systems... The emergency numbers... no copper wires!

[Roger Ramjet]

Talk Talk upgraded my pals FTTC to FTTP at no cost but his copper phone line is still working albeit OCB. This did not fuss him because he never uses the landline & in fact has had a Broadband SIP set up for many years in respect of his TV Repair business.

He then got stressed when Talk Talk wrote to him regarding the current OFCOM approved expected Land Line price increase. I tried to tell him this was probably meant the full fibre Land Line but Talk Talk then confused matter more by calling the copper line a "Leave Behind Line".

I have suggested he reviews his next bill (post price increase) to ensure he is not paying for two landlines.

[dave walsh]

Further to the other questions and comments. I'd read about and [sort of] understood that the new Voice Operated Protocol is a monetisation exercise, as well as a major technical advance. We have 2 large cabinets at the bottom our road which replaced the one blown up internally [believe it or not] during the Bonfire Night season a few years ago. I've recently noticed cables being threaded underground, further up Bexhill and one or two hanging from Telegraph Poles receiving occasional attention. I suspect this is VOIP related in some way and not a fault situation, as I first thought!

Uncle Bulgaria" provided a link to the BT explanatory page [at post 6]. As I understand it, the last link, from cabinet to customer, can be simply Internet enabled or employ an Ethernet cable, if there's a weak signal [unless I've got this all wrong] so how is that cable option installed? If I'm slightly confused, I doubt that the BT diagram will be a great help to the average non technical person who may well be more concerned or wondering about what what physical activity will take place in the vicinity of their home, street or road. A casual glance at the drawing might suggest it's all a cable installation perhaps

Dave W

Just as an aside, my home in the north has an exchange down the street. Quite handy of course. The old Stroweger racks were piled up outside for a
very long time. An engineer turned up one day at least a decade ago because an outsourced team had confused the copper wires on the pole outside and we residents were getting each others calls I helped this young chap to sort it out. We talked about the new fibre installations but he confided that new technical advances might mean that "copper" twin could perhaps achieve great things not believed to be possible previously. Agendas change though I suppose!

Dave W

[dave walsh]

Roger [post 30] is wise to alert us re the scope to create "accidental'' confusion with VOIP charging and billing. I no longer have a BT landline in the North. My wife sourced a 'cheap' Broadband offer but it ended up costing more than the previous deal [she rarely gets caught like that ]. I'm in the south a lot so
we cancelled the line. I can use Broadband at the Library across the road and socialise!

Dave W

[mark.woodward]

It occurs to me that the need for UPS' etc. for battery backup will put more stress on the need for batteries when we are being being 'encouraged' to convert to electric vehicles. We'll be up to our necks in batteries!
I worked for BT in the '70s and early '80s at Leamington Spa exchange (repeater station maintenance). It was all FDM for long-haul telephony and all the equipment was made in the UK by the likes of GEC, Plessey and STC - all now gone ... . PCM was just rearing it's head at that time.

[Aub]

My brother has a learning disability and lives alone. He has a "lifeline" pendent he can use if he falls over and can't get to the phone. This is provided by the council as part of adult social care. I've been meaning to contact them to see what their plan is for on going operation of the equipment.

A couple of weeks ago, I happened to be at my brother's house when a couple of young blokes from BT knocked on the door asking about fibre broadband. When I told them their was no broadband in the house and there was no need for it, they left, mentioning nothing about copper ending.

Cheers

Aub

[lesmw0sec]

I had an interesting experience recently when someone helpfully drove in to a pole on the main road. Broadband vanished, yet the phone worked perfectly. I would have expected that both services came through the same route - but clearly not!

[Roger Ramjet]

Originally Posted by Aub

My brother has a learning disability and lives alone. He has a "lifeline" pendent he can use if he falls over and can't get to the phone. This is provided by the council as part of adult social care. I've been meaning to contact them to see what their plan is for on going operation of the equipment.

A couple of weeks ago, I happened to be at my brother's house when a couple of young blokes from BT knocked on the door asking about fibre broadband. When I told them their was no broadband in the house and there was no need for it, they left, mentioning nothing about copper ending.

Cheers

Aub

Hi Aub,

Through business contacts, I have done some research in respect of TeleCare products & from what I understand - new & some existing products have options to signal either via PSTN, IP or even SIM.

Of course these may not apply to your brother but it would be incumbent for the council to offer advice & solutions.

Rog

[Aub]

Thanks Roger.

Aub

[Bazz4CQJ]

Can anyone point me at a website giving guidance on the future on the basis of postcode? Looked, but didn't find anything useful.

I'm in the sticks in North Oxfordshire. I don't know quite how close fibre gets to me but the last bit is definitely copper.

B

[Tim]

Aub. Those lifeline things will work as normal from the socket on the back of the router( well, BT ones anyway), as far as the LL unit is concerned, it is indistinguishable from a standard phone line, but of course you will need back-up power for the router of course, and for the lifeline box itself.
Such things are available. Battery backup boxes were supplied with the early Openreach fibre ONT’s, but are no longer. The BBU produces 12volts (centre pin +) from 4*AA rechargeables, so I’m sure it must be handy for some routers as well, perhaps with some slight modifications to the plug.
PM me for the BT item code if it helps.

[David G4EBT]

I've has FTTP for about five years now, but still use the phone on the copper network.

We have four telephone sockets which were installed when our house was built in 1991. One is in the hall, one in my study, one in the kitchen, and one in the bedroom. Unless I'm mistaken, reading this thread, within maybe two years, all of those phones will be obsolete and will need to be replaced with something else, but what else?

My wife and I have got smartphones, but ordinarily, don't use them when at home - old habits die hard.

I guess I should ask KCOM. They tend to be ahead of the curve, so it would be par for the course for them to pull the plug on the landline.

A remarkable record for a phone service run exclusively by the city council, never part of the national network:

Quote:

1989: Conversion to System X, the first all digital network in Europe. On 28 November 1984 the hand-over of the first System X digital exchange took place, exactly 80 years to the minute after the opening of the very first exchange in 1904.The conversion was completed in 1989. Hull had the first all digital network in Europe.

1998: KC launched Europe’s first commercial “fast internet” service using ADSL technology to deliver a whole new range of services including digital television, interactive services such as home shopping and high-speed internet access to its 200,000 customers. The first phase of the programme involved the launch of a range of high-speed internet services for business customers – believed to be the first commercial launch in Europe.

2012: Roll-out of ultrafast broadband begins.

In Hull and East Yorkshire we began the deployment of our ultrafast fibre broadband service, ‘Lightstream’. Today, Hull remains the only city in the UK where ultrafast broadband, delivered directly to homes and businesses via fibre cables, is being rolled out as standard.

End quote.

https://www.kcom.com/about-us/histor...L%20technology