Premier 3 Valve TRF

[Clive G7LUC]

Hello all,

I have just bought one of these sets on Ebay for £20. I've had some fun looking through old PW's on the World Radio History UK page and have found adverts for this kit so far from 1948 to 1954. Certainly Premier were always the main seller but other firms included Teleradio ( as the Peter Pan) Norman H Field (as the Meteor Three), D. Cohen and Barton's.

All the adverts refer to the set as MW/LW. I was a bit surprised to find mine just had a Medium Wave dial.I Googled some images and found another MW only set. Mine is the one in the Walnut case and the Ivory case is another one that I found.

Mine is built on a home-made tinplate chassis so obviously the builder was trying to save as much cash as possible. Remember we were in the depth of post-war austerity and everyone was broke. Did at least two builders go one step further and perform a money-saving mod and delete LW and its associated components?

I remember the era well and you could pick up BBC Home, Third and Light programmes all on medium wave, some via BBC regional "synchronised repeaters". And there was also Luxy on 208 with music and Ovaltine adverts in the evenings!

I can't see any other explanation except wanting to save a few bob. But how wide a practice was it on all of the kits, do we know? Seen any more?

Many thanks,

Clive

[G6Tanuki]

I acquired one of those in the very-early-70s; EF39, EF91 (which had been fitted on an obviously bodged plate over the original octal hole) and 6V6 with a finned metal rectifier. Transformer for the filaments but otherwise live-chassis.

It was originally MW and LW but I removed the LW coils (because by then Radio1 was on 247M MW and so LW could happily be sacrificed) and reworked it to cover 80/160 Metre amateurs.

[rontech]

Originally Posted by Clive G7LUC

Hello all,

I have just bought one of these sets on Ebay for £20. I've had some fun looking through old PW's on the World Radio History UK page and have found adverts for this kit so far from 1948 to 1954. Certainly Premier were always the main seller but other firms included Teleradio ( as the Peter Pan) Norman H Field (as the Meteor Three), D. Cohen and Barton's.

All the adverts refer to the set as MW/LW. I was a bit surprised to find mine just had a Medium Wave dial.I Googled some images and found another MW only set. Mine is the one in the Walnut case and the Ivory case is another one that I found.

Mine is built on a home-made tinplate chassis so obviously the builder was trying to save as much cash as possible. Remember we were in the depth of post-war austerity and everyone was broke. Did at least two builders go one step further and perform a money-saving mod and delete LW and its associated components?

I remember the era well and you could pick up BBC Home, Third and Light programmes all on medium wave, some via BBC regional "synchronised repeaters". And there was also Luxy on 208 with music and Ovaltine adverts in the evenings!

I can't see any other explanation except wanting to save a few bob. But how wide a practice was it on all of the kits, do we know? Seen any more?

Many thanks,

Clive

I clearly remember listening to Radio Luxembourg on my father's big HMV 650 radio back in the early 1950's. Dan Dare, Perry Mason etc; happy days.

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by Clive G7LUC

All the adverts refer to the set as MW/LW. I was a bit surprised to find mine just had a Medium Wave dial.I Googled some images and found another MW only set. Mine is the one in the Walnut case and the Ivory case is another one that I found.

The photo of the ivory set is blurred, but from the tuning scales it looks like a three-waveband jobbie to me, while yours is MW/LW. Its wavelength markings are clearly there on both bands, but LW stations have vanished utterly because of the colour of ink that was chosen for them, probably red.

Paul

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by Paul_RK

...LW stations have vanished utterly because of the colour of ink that was chosen for them, probably red...

Or maybe green, but either way they've gone. Here's another instance of the three-band Premier superhet, with a clearer photo: LW stations are in green, the LW scale is the inner one beneath the centre of the dial, and the SW scale runs immediately outside it.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=31751

And the same model again with an even better photo:

https://www.snellingsmuseum.co.uk/ap...54-20182-1.jpg

[Sideband]

I have a Barton set that looks identical but is a three waveband superhet. Standard octal valve line-up as well. Not much wrong with it....usual caps and a dud selenium rectifier. The alignment wasn't good and had probably been like it since built so once that had been sorted, the set was really good and still gives an excellent performance some 10 years later.

There were all sorts of variations of the set all using the same cabinet.

[Clive G7LUC]

Thanks for all your contributions. I am posting some photos now of my chassis and also Premier and Barton adverts in PW. My set has a metal rectifier too.There is a partial shield over the middle valve - were they usually canned?

I won't be switching on until I done checks on all the caps etc. But what does the third knob do? On my set knob one is on/off/volume, centre knob drives the tuning capacitor but knob three is a potentiometer with no switch. Maybe tone or reaction? Was that originally the wave change?

[Big Loon]

If the set is TRF then the third knob could be for reaction, sometimes called regeneration If I remember correctly, it would be adjusted to just before the onset of oscillation. This would allow for maximum sensitivity, and was useful for pulling in weaker stations. Of course, this process would have to be repeated for every channel tuned in.
Going a little bit off subject, I can remember some of these old adverts and I did at one time purchase from Premiere Radio. It's a pity that such firms aren't with us now.
BL

[Hartley118]

Originally Posted by Clive G7LUC

Hello all,

I have just bought one of these sets on Ebay for £20. I've had some fun looking through old PW's on the World Radio History ....

All the adverts refer to the set as MW/LW. I was a bit surprised to find mine just had a Medium Wave dial.I Googled some images and found another MW only set. Mine is the one in the Walnut case and the Ivory case is another one that I found...

I can't see any other explanation except wanting to save a few bob. But how wide a practice was it on all of the kits, do we know? Seen any more?

Many thanks,

Clive

Having built one of the superhet kits as a schoolboy in the mid-1950s and (naturally!) since repurposed the parts, I've more recently, out of sheer nostalgia, collected a few examples of both the TRF and superhet,which still perform well. As has already been described, the TRFs are just MW/LW, whilst the superhet includes the SW band.

Something that's puzzling is that, according to your photo, your set includes the middle knob, which is for the wavechange switch (2-way on the TRF and 3-way on the superhet). That would be superfluous on a single-band set. As has been mentioned, I think I can see vestiges of a LW dial on the photo.

I hope you enjoy the set. In my experience, the TRF works a jolly sight better than one might expect in a circuit without a reaction control. I suspect that there's more to the design than meets the eye: I think that the layout introduces some useful positive feedback between the RF stage and detector, improving both sensitivity and selectivity.

Martin

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by Hartley118

As has been mentioned, I think I can see vestiges of a LW dial on the photo.

Could be vestiges of station names, but the LW wavelength scale around the perimeter is very clear.

I wonder whether a kit builder who hadn't any use for LW - perhaps because of living in an area, like parts of the NE, where reception of the Droitwich 1500m. transmitter was difficult and a local MW relay station provided a better alternative (not sure whether this arrangement was in place in the '40s/'50s) - may just have decided a tone control would be a more worthwhile feature on his set than the second waveband.

[Clive G7LUC]

Many thanks indeed for your further contributions. I've attached a close-up of my MW set's dial (and yes the LW wavelength figures are still there on the perimeter) together with a picture of a "standard" dial - note maker name "Cellgrave". And a photo of another "normal" MW/LW version (except for odd knobs!) of my posh Walnut cased set.

I was genuinely surprised to hear that there was anywhere in North West Europe (let alone NE England!) where the dear old Droitwich Growler's 198 khz signal could not be heard? Must be some weird geology possibly - maybe ironstone deposits or sumat like that?

I shall ask Professor Google…...........

[Paul_RK]

Could well be that there's hardly a spot in the British Isles where R4 can't be heard on 198kHz LW, but a good enough signal for pleasant regular listening is another matter, and it was hardly that in our former pit village five miles from Durham. The BBC has had several MW transmitters filling the gaps - from their website (archived and no longer updated, so perhaps some have closed down):

"Radio 4 is also available... on Medium Wave in the following locations:

Aberdeen - 1449 MW
Belfast - 720 MW
Carlisle - 1485 MW
Cornwall - 756 MW
Enniskillen - 774 MW
London - 720 MW
Londonderry - 720 MW
Newcastle - 603 MW
Plymouth - 774 MW"

[G6Tanuki]

What would have been being broadcast on LW in the likely timescale of the radio's sale and construction??

Perhaps the constructor at the time was uninterested in the content (just as I was) on LW and used the hole for something more appropriate to their needs?

A young person building up a radio for their bedroom would have been likely to happily forgo the BBC and instead listen to the pirates and Luxembourg.

[Sideband]

Originally Posted by Clive G7LUC

I am posting some photos now of my chassis and also Premier and Barton adverts in PW.

That Barton advert describes my set perfectly. Same valve line-up as well. £7.19s 6d must have been quite a hefty sum in 1955...a heck of a lot more than a weeks wages. I can imagine someone saving hard for it....

[Clive G7LUC]

Yes, a good question to ask, what was the BBC Droitwich 198 kHz LW transmitter used for? I remember this very well and have carefully followed the changes as they occurred.
I was born in 1953 and remember radio stations from the fifties onwards.

My recollection was that the BBC "1500 metres" channel was post-WW2 used exclusively for the " Light Programme"' - " Light" on the radio dials. This was the main entertainment channel, popular music, comedy and variety shows. But as has been outlined above, the Light Programme was also backed up by Medium Wave transmitters in certain locations.

The main BBC national channel was the "Home Service"' - "Home" on the dials. It carried all news, also the Greenwich time signals ("The Pips") and so it was vital to have a radio capable of receiving it. It was carried on a national MW synchronous transmitter network. Finally there was the classical music channel " Third Programme" added in 1947, carried on its own MW transmitter network.

In the 1960''s a pop music channel " Radio 1" was added on 247 metres medium wave. Home became Radio 4, Third Radio 3 and Light Radio 2. By now all four BBC channels were also carried on VHF/FM. But surprisingly the Droitwich 198khz transmitter henceforth was changed exclusively to Radio 4. Possibly they also kept some of the MW R4 network of local repeaters. So when cricket was on, Radio 4 LW would carry match commentary with other Radio 4 output moved to VHF FM (and possibly remaining medium wave local nets.)

Clear to see where British priorities lay - using the mighty Droitwich Long Wave behemoth to ensure that the vital cricket scores and live commentary reached every corner of Her Majesty's Realm!

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by Clive G7LUC

In the 1960''s a pop music channel " Radio 1" was added on 247 metres medium wave. Home became Radio 4, Third Radio 3 and Light Radio 2. By now all four BBC channels were also carried on VHF/FM. But surprisingly the Droitwich 198khz transmitter henceforth was changed exclusively to Radio 4.

The history is a bit more complicated - Radio 4 didn't take over the LW frequency from Radio 2 until 1978, and to the chagrin of many Radio 1 didn't begin to have its own FM transmitter network until 1988. Prior to that R1 had borrowed R2's FM frequencies for a limited number of hours per week, chiefly if memory serves late evenings and weekends.

Paul

[Graham G3ZVT]

Originally Posted by Clive G7LUC

Clear to see where British priorities lay - using the mighty Droitwich Long Wave behemoth to ensure that the vital cricket scores and live commentary reached every corner of Her Majesty's Realm!

Even if I had any interest, I can't listen to TMS or the Daily Service in my car.
My pervious vehicle had the ability to select a sub-channel on R4 DAB (analogous to the "Red Button on TV), but my current radio seems not to support the feature.

Graham, also born in 1953,
I can remember the radios we had in the '50s but not so much which wavelength carried what.

[Dave757]

[QUOTE=Clive G7LUC;1584839]Yes, a good question to ask, what was the BBC Droitwich 198 kHz LW transmitter used for? I remember this very well and have carefully followed the changes as they occurred.
I was born in 1953 and remember radio stations from the fifties onwards.


The main BBC national channel was the "Home Service"' - "Home" on the dials. It carried all news, also the Greenwich time signals ("The Pips") and so it was vital to have a radio capable of receiving it. It was carried on a national MW synchronous transmitter network. Finally there was the classical music channel " Third Programme" added in 1947, carried on its own MW transmitter network.


Hi,

Droitwich 1500m was on the air prewar, and was the national service.
The Home service was transmitted regionally on several MW frequencies

I'm not sure exactly when Droitwich started, but it was certainly on the dial
of our 1936 Marconi radiogram. I think the name was changed from Nationals
to the Light Programme just after WW2, but I'm sure someone
will put me right on that.

Kind regards
Dave

[llama]

1500 long wave was actually 200kHz and only changed to 198 when all channels were modified to be multiples of 9. Someone here will remember the date of that change!
Graham

[Clive G7LUC]

The simple answer for TMS - just buy one of these:-