radio identity crisis (Weston). - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

wireful3 · 24th Mar 2008, 12:24 pm

Help Please,
I got a radio at a car boot sale some years ago and I have never identified it. As a last resort I would hope someone can help before I scrap it for salvage spares. I will try to include photos but I have not cracked the problem of reducing the image size yet.

It is a wooden box about 30 cm long by roughly 18 cm square with one end curved, it has a raised platform on the top and slots in the sides. The flat end has a metal tuning dial on it marked Long Wave and Medium Wave with the name Weston also printed on it. The tuning knob is fairly large, directly fixed to the tuning condenser and has a central knob that is a clutch mechanism for setting mechanical push button selectors that protrude from the top platform a bit like the funnels of a ship.

The valve line-up is :- 6K8, 6K7, 6B8, and 25ZB4G. The rectifier is obviously a replacement as a large diameter hole has been cut in the case top to accommodate the larger envelope so it has clearly had some attention in the past. It has line cord but only a short one about 40cm

I think I abandoned restoration because of the rather bizarre state of the chassis. It does not seem to be able to decide whether it is a manufactured set, a home assembled kit or -to be kind- a free improvisation on a theme. The case is craftsman made of solid wood and bent ply. The chassis is a mixture of normal manufacturing with rivets fixing the valve holders and improvised spacing pillars of long bolts and collars.

My guess is that it is derived from an American import from the 40s but it does not look like others I have seen. I don't want to destroy it if it has any historical value. Alternatively if it is a product of the phantom on a good day then I might as well save the components that are still usable.

Now to try to send pix!!! I got somewhere that will give an idea but need to work harder .

Steve_P · 24th Mar 2008, 7:22 pm

Interesting set. No visible heaters, and a very unusual shape. Whether it's an American Import or home made, I would keep it and fix it.

The pictures are a bit small, but I think it's had it's line cord cut. Does it have two or three leads? It may need a line cord to make it work due to valve heaters. At a guess, 110 volts.

Bigger pictures may help here. Don't destroy it - to say it's interesting would be an understatement.

Cheers,

Steve P.

chipp1968 · 24th Mar 2008, 7:45 pm

yes dont destroy it . looks very interesting and unuseual. pictures are hard to see unfortunately

dseymo1 · 24th Mar 2008, 7:56 pm

If the name Weston refers the manufacturers of electronic instruments, this points to US origin, as they were based in New Jersey, although their famous exposure meters were made in the uK.

geofy · 24th Mar 2008, 8:37 pm

Does the speaker have a label on it, this may show whether it is British or American.It looks a bit like a Celestion

Geof

wireful3 · 24th Mar 2008, 9:11 pm

Thanks all, You have convinced me to keep it.

Yes it is interesting to say the least. On the base is a very indistinct label with a long list of patents of RCA and associated companies with a statement that it is licensed only for Radio Amateur Experimental and Broadcast reception. Another list relates to the Hazeltine Corporation licensing it only for use in homes for educational purposes and for private non commercial use.
This all seems reminiscent of UK legislation in the twenties but the chassis with octal valves is more like late thirties or early forties. Perhaps the wood for the base came from an earlier set.

Just for information I found a few notes and I agree the three core line cord is short. I checked the voltages at some stage and they were quite sensible. There may be a dropper resistor somewhere but it is not obvious and there is really insufficient ventilation. It is a bit of a puzzle as I am sure I did this before I had a 230 to 110 conversion transformer. I must resume serious work on it at least to get rid of the improvisations.

I am sorry about the pictures, I can't solve the problem of reducing the bits on my photos. I will have another go but as I don't have photoshop I might have to wait until my grandchildren give me lessons.

Failed miserably to reduce file size. I could email a picture if anyone is interested

The speaker is just held by a screw and a washer at one side only, the other hole does not quite line up with the hole in the chassis so it must be a replacement

Steve_P · 24th Mar 2008, 11:09 pm

Below are the photos.

It's an interesting set! I'd like a quick look under the chassis too. It's had some parts changed under there, and I'd like to know what they are and where they are!

Cheers,

Steve P.

wireful3 · 25th Mar 2008, 9:16 am

Steve

Thanks for the photos, My next step is to get the chassis out so I will email you a picture of this.

Regards

Steve_P · 25th Mar 2008, 2:51 pm

Here is a picture of the underside.....

Cheers,

Steve P.

radiogammon · 25th Mar 2008, 4:41 pm

John,
There are 5 valve holders but you only mention 4 valves. The missing one should be the output valve. Do you know the number of this one? Also, are you running it off a 110V transformer? In that case, if the valves heaters are wired in series, the heater voltages would add up to about 50V, meaning that a dropper resistor (or line cord?) would need to drop around 60V at 0.3A. or 18W of power. I don't see any large dropper resistor, however. Could there have been a line cord originally? The look of everything makes me think it is of UK origin. The reference to the Hazeldine Corp refers to the use of AVC, for which they held the patent at the time.

HamishBoxer · 25th Mar 2008, 5:05 pm

6V6 is my guess.

wireful3 · 25th Mar 2008, 5:32 pm

John and Hamish,
There is not a missing valve, but the extra valve holder hole is a mystery. It does not look as if there was ever a valve holder in it and there is no room above the chassis for another valve. The vacant hole is right under the speaker. I don't know the 6B8 but perhaps it can give acceptable output but I also would have expected a 6V6.

I think when I got it at first I did patch it and it worked after a fashion. It looked so dodgy that I abandoned it and it is so long ago now my memory is not clear. It has line cord but only a short length with a standard 13 Amp plug. From memory the pilot lamp was about the right brightness and I think the HT voltage must have been sensible because I changed the smoothing electrolytics and would have noticed anything odd.
I have not tried it again because I don't understand what is happening with the line cord and I am now more cautious. It seems too short and one lead is not connected to anything but has a sleeve insulating the end. I can't see where it might have broken away so I will have to settle down to a serious diagnostic session. The Radiospares high wattage resistor is probably smoothing but there is no sign of any other dropper for the filaments. I can only guess that I compromised by using a series lamp just to try it at 110 volts.

Your comment about UK origin are interesting because looking more carefully, the components apart from the metal valves have a British rather than American appearance. It is also interesting that no one now lists all the relevant patents but perhaps they are all now expired.

wireful3 · 25th Mar 2008, 6:20 pm

John and Hamish and all,

VERY RED FACE

I found some notes and then looked more carefully at the set. There is in fact an output valve it is a 25L6. I think I had a blind spot because it was not a nice metal one like all the others. When I looked underneath I was so fascinated by the open hole for a valve holder that I completely overlooked it.

With this, the heater chain is now more sensible for 110 volts and a relatively short line cord. Now I must look through more notebooks to see how I tested it if I ever wrote anything down. For some reason the notes had been marked RCA .

Sean Williams · 25th Mar 2008, 6:48 pm

Nice set!

Certainly worth saving!

please keep us posted with lots of piccys, as this has to be almost unique over here!

Ian B · 25th Mar 2008, 8:00 pm

The dial being marked for long wave would suggest to me a set made for the British or European market. Certainly an interesting beastie though.

Ian Blackbourn

Neil Purling · 25th Mar 2008, 8:23 pm

The casework of the radio does have a rather nautical look about it but that work under the chassis looks rather crude. Is this radio a product of a small-scale manufacturer?

wireful3 · 25th Mar 2008, 8:27 pm

Well, the encouraging response has convinced me that I should treat this as a serious project.

My older notes make it clear the line cord system needs a lot of care. The ON/OFF switching is strange and appears to leave live and neutral permanently connected to the rectifier and chassis. The heater chain is connected permanently to the resistive element in the cord and switched by connecting to chassis. This appears to be reasonably safe if the plug is the right way round but as the set is never disconnected from the mains it is not for the unwary.

The line cord is about 250 ohms which seems appropriate for 110 volt mains so I must have done something odd when I checked it years ago. As I now have a 110 volt transformer I think I can leave it.

The brand name on the condensers is spelled in American so I feel this establishes the origin. Yes it was probably made for export to the UK as it has both Long and Medium bands. It does look like a small manufacturer I felt the same about the under chassis work and the solder bonding to the chassis is unusual.

Thanks for the encouragement, so I will now settle down to a long term restoration. It will need a change of thought process as my interest has recently gone towards transistor radios.

Regards

wireful3 · 26th Mar 2008, 2:27 pm

just a shot at a picture of the push button mechanics to see if I can do it yet. It seems as if I have cracked it so I will try for the carpentry as well

Studio263 · 31st Mar 2008, 10:44 am

The push-button mechanism looks very much like one shown in Chas Miller's original "practical handbook of valve radio repair". The drawing illustrated a mechanism of American origin and was credited to a manufacturer called "Oak" (I think).

newlite4 · 31st Mar 2008, 4:27 pm

This set seems to have done the rounds John. I first encountered it on a stall at the Saturday antiques market in Bath about six years ago. At the time, I was put off by the hole bored into the top so that the replacement valve could be fitted. To this day, I have been mulling-over the prospect of someone replacing the "G" type valve with the correct "GT" type and repairing the hole. I seem to recall seeing an advert for this set (which would have been a lend-lease import) in which it sits on the arm of a chair and remotely controls a larger set via a cable. I do wonder if it is a modified version for the wartime UK market.
Neil

24th Mar 2008, 12:24 pm	#1
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	radio identity crisis (Weston). Help Please, I got a radio at a car boot sale some years ago and I have never identified it. As a last resort I would hope someone can help before I scrap it for salvage spares. I will try to include photos but I have not cracked the problem of reducing the image size yet. It is a wooden box about 30 cm long by roughly 18 cm square with one end curved, it has a raised platform on the top and slots in the sides. The flat end has a metal tuning dial on it marked Long Wave and Medium Wave with the name Weston also printed on it. The tuning knob is fairly large, directly fixed to the tuning condenser and has a central knob that is a clutch mechanism for setting mechanical push button selectors that protrude from the top platform a bit like the funnels of a ship. The valve line-up is :- 6K8, 6K7, 6B8, and 25ZB4G. The rectifier is obviously a replacement as a large diameter hole has been cut in the case top to accommodate the larger envelope so it has clearly had some attention in the past. It has line cord but only a short one about 40cm I think I abandoned restoration because of the rather bizarre state of the chassis. It does not seem to be able to decide whether it is a manufactured set, a home assembled kit or -to be kind- a free improvisation on a theme. The case is craftsman made of solid wood and bent ply. The chassis is a mixture of normal manufacturing with rivets fixing the valve holders and improvised spacing pillars of long bolts and collars. My guess is that it is derived from an American import from the 40s but it does not look like others I have seen. I don't want to destroy it if it has any historical value. Alternatively if it is a product of the phantom on a good day then I might as well save the components that are still usable. Now to try to send pix!!! I got somewhere that will give an idea but need to work harder . Attached Thumbnails

24th Mar 2008, 7:22 pm	#2
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: radio identity crisis Interesting set. No visible heaters, and a very unusual shape. Whether it's an American Import or home made, I would keep it and fix it. The pictures are a bit small, but I think it's had it's line cord cut. Does it have two or three leads? It may need a line cord to make it work due to valve heaters. At a guess, 110 volts. Bigger pictures may help here. Don't destroy it - to say it's interesting would be an understatement. Cheers, Steve P. __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

24th Mar 2008, 7:45 pm	#3
chipp1968 Rest in Peace Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 2,356	Re: radio identity crisis yes dont destroy it . looks very interesting and unuseual. pictures are hard to see unfortunately

24th Mar 2008, 7:56 pm	#4
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: radio identity crisis If the name Weston refers the manufacturers of electronic instruments, this points to US origin, as they were based in New Jersey, although their famous exposure meters were made in the uK.

24th Mar 2008, 8:37 pm	#5
geofy Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,798	Re: radio identity crisis Does the speaker have a label on it, this may show whether it is British or American.It looks a bit like a Celestion Geof

24th Mar 2008, 9:11 pm	#6
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: radio identity crisis Thanks all, You have convinced me to keep it. Yes it is interesting to say the least. On the base is a very indistinct label with a long list of patents of RCA and associated companies with a statement that it is licensed only for Radio Amateur Experimental and Broadcast reception. Another list relates to the Hazeltine Corporation licensing it only for use in homes for educational purposes and for private non commercial use. This all seems reminiscent of UK legislation in the twenties but the chassis with octal valves is more like late thirties or early forties. Perhaps the wood for the base came from an earlier set. Just for information I found a few notes and I agree the three core line cord is short. I checked the voltages at some stage and they were quite sensible. There may be a dropper resistor somewhere but it is not obvious and there is really insufficient ventilation. It is a bit of a puzzle as I am sure I did this before I had a 230 to 110 conversion transformer. I must resume serious work on it at least to get rid of the improvisations. I am sorry about the pictures, I can't solve the problem of reducing the bits on my photos. I will have another go but as I don't have photoshop I might have to wait until my grandchildren give me lessons. Failed miserably to reduce file size. I could email a picture if anyone is interested The speaker is just held by a screw and a washer at one side only, the other hole does not quite line up with the hole in the chassis so it must be a replacement Last edited by wireful3; 24th Mar 2008 at 9:16 pm.

24th Mar 2008, 11:09 pm	#7
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: radio identity crisis Below are the photos. It's an interesting set! I'd like a quick look under the chassis too. It's had some parts changed under there, and I'd like to know what they are and where they are! Cheers, Steve P. Attached Thumbnails __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

25th Mar 2008, 9:16 am	#8
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: radio identity crisis Steve Thanks for the photos, My next step is to get the chassis out so I will email you a picture of this. Regards

25th Mar 2008, 2:51 pm	#9
Steve_P Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester, UK. Posts: 6,644	Re: radio identity crisis Here is a picture of the underside..... Cheers, Steve P. Attached Thumbnails __________________ If we've always had it, why is the Car Boot open? You're not sneaking another Old TV in are you...?

25th Mar 2008, 4:41 pm	#10
radiogammon Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: County Down, Northern Ireland, UK. Posts: 275	Re: radio identity crisis John, There are 5 valve holders but you only mention 4 valves. The missing one should be the output valve. Do you know the number of this one? Also, are you running it off a 110V transformer? In that case, if the valves heaters are wired in series, the heater voltages would add up to about 50V, meaning that a dropper resistor (or line cord?) would need to drop around 60V at 0.3A. or 18W of power. I don't see any large dropper resistor, however. Could there have been a line cord originally? The look of everything makes me think it is of UK origin. The reference to the Hazeldine Corp refers to the use of AVC, for which they held the patent at the time.

25th Mar 2008, 5:05 pm	#11
HamishBoxer Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK. Posts: 8,935	Re: radio identity crisis 6V6 is my guess.

25th Mar 2008, 5:32 pm	#12
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: radio identity crisis John and Hamish, There is not a missing valve, but the extra valve holder hole is a mystery. It does not look as if there was ever a valve holder in it and there is no room above the chassis for another valve. The vacant hole is right under the speaker. I don't know the 6B8 but perhaps it can give acceptable output but I also would have expected a 6V6. I think when I got it at first I did patch it and it worked after a fashion. It looked so dodgy that I abandoned it and it is so long ago now my memory is not clear. It has line cord but only a short length with a standard 13 Amp plug. From memory the pilot lamp was about the right brightness and I think the HT voltage must have been sensible because I changed the smoothing electrolytics and would have noticed anything odd. I have not tried it again because I don't understand what is happening with the line cord and I am now more cautious. It seems too short and one lead is not connected to anything but has a sleeve insulating the end. I can't see where it might have broken away so I will have to settle down to a serious diagnostic session. The Radiospares high wattage resistor is probably smoothing but there is no sign of any other dropper for the filaments. I can only guess that I compromised by using a series lamp just to try it at 110 volts. Your comment about UK origin are interesting because looking more carefully, the components apart from the metal valves have a British rather than American appearance. It is also interesting that no one now lists all the relevant patents but perhaps they are all now expired.

25th Mar 2008, 6:20 pm	#13
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: radio identity crisis John and Hamish and all, VERY RED FACE I found some notes and then looked more carefully at the set. There is in fact an output valve it is a 25L6. I think I had a blind spot because it was not a nice metal one like all the others. When I looked underneath I was so fascinated by the open hole for a valve holder that I completely overlooked it. With this, the heater chain is now more sensible for 110 volts and a relatively short line cord. Now I must look through more notebooks to see how I tested it if I ever wrote anything down. For some reason the notes had been marked RCA .

25th Mar 2008, 6:48 pm	#14
Sean Williams Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW Posts: 3,518	Re: radio identity crisis Nice set! Certainly worth saving! please keep us posted with lots of piccys, as this has to be almost unique over here! __________________ Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished

25th Mar 2008, 8:00 pm	#15
Ian B Hexode Join Date: May 2006 Location: Arlesey, Bedfordshire, UK. Posts: 401	Re: radio identity crisis The dial being marked for long wave would suggest to me a set made for the British or European market. Certainly an interesting beastie though. Ian Blackbourn

25th Mar 2008, 8:23 pm	#16
Neil Purling Nonode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 2,087	Re: radio identity crisis The casework of the radio does have a rather nautical look about it but that work under the chassis looks rather crude. Is this radio a product of a small-scale manufacturer?

25th Mar 2008, 8:27 pm	#17
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: radio identity crisis Well, the encouraging response has convinced me that I should treat this as a serious project. My older notes make it clear the line cord system needs a lot of care. The ON/OFF switching is strange and appears to leave live and neutral permanently connected to the rectifier and chassis. The heater chain is connected permanently to the resistive element in the cord and switched by connecting to chassis. This appears to be reasonably safe if the plug is the right way round but as the set is never disconnected from the mains it is not for the unwary. The line cord is about 250 ohms which seems appropriate for 110 volt mains so I must have done something odd when I checked it years ago. As I now have a 110 volt transformer I think I can leave it. The brand name on the condensers is spelled in American so I feel this establishes the origin. Yes it was probably made for export to the UK as it has both Long and Medium bands. It does look like a small manufacturer I felt the same about the under chassis work and the solder bonding to the chassis is unusual. Thanks for the encouragement, so I will now settle down to a long term restoration. It will need a change of thought process as my interest has recently gone towards transistor radios. Regards

26th Mar 2008, 2:27 pm	#18
wireful3 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 808	Re: radio identity crisis just a shot at a picture of the push button mechanics to see if I can do it yet. It seems as if I have cracked it so I will try for the carpentry as well Attached Thumbnails

31st Mar 2008, 10:44 am	#19
Studio263 Octode Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,578	Re: radio identity crisis The push-button mechanism looks very much like one shown in Chas Miller's original "practical handbook of valve radio repair". The drawing illustrated a mechanism of American origin and was credited to a manufacturer called "Oak" (I think).

31st Mar 2008, 4:27 pm	#20
newlite4 Octode Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Bath, Somerset, UK. Posts: 1,805	Re: radio identity crisis This set seems to have done the rounds John. I first encountered it on a stall at the Saturday antiques market in Bath about six years ago. At the time, I was put off by the hole bored into the top so that the replacement valve could be fitted. To this day, I have been mulling-over the prospect of someone replacing the "G" type valve with the correct "GT" type and repairing the hole. I seem to recall seeing an advert for this set (which would have been a lend-lease import) in which it sits on the arm of a chair and remotely controls a larger set via a cable. I do wonder if it is a modified version for the wartime UK market. Neil __________________ preserving the recent past, for the distant future.