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Old 12th Dec 2023, 11:12 am   #41
marceljack
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

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Originally Posted by hamid_1 View Post
There were some cheap large(ish)-screen solid-state monochrome TVs, typically 17" size, produced in eastern Europe and some Asian countries, sold in the UK. But I never saw any such sets from Japan. Did the Japanese, rather like the British, think it wasn't worthwhile developing them?
Japan was not a low income country, so sets produced there were not particularly cheap, and the transportation costs would have been important on a big screen monochrome set relatively to its value.
Japan had already an important experience on colour TV for their internal market and the US, which gave them a competitive advantage even on other systems than NTSC.
I think that it's the reason not to have entered the large scren monochrome market for export, which was on the decline anyway.
In addition Japan did not have an important after sales infrastructure in Europe, which led them to make very reliable products, which has a cost.
An additional reason to concentrate on high end, thus colour.
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Old 12th Dec 2023, 11:57 am   #42
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

The UK had import restrictions regarding screen size for Japanese TVs. Certainly colour . Which is why early '70s Japanese sets were all small screen, 18" and below.
By the time the restrictions were lifted mono was past it's sell by date.
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Old 13th Dec 2023, 2:45 pm   #43
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

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Originally Posted by hamid_1 View Post
Going back to the Bang & Olufsen monochrome TV that Tim mentioned, was it designed and made in the UK or was it from Denmark, where B&O originates from?
It was designed and made in Denmark, although this one is a proper UK model (240V, 6MHZ sound). The same chassis was used in the 600 portable (17") and the 900 (20", but not sold in the UK). 600s were quite popular here but the 1600 is less common (although Keith Cummins from the 'Television' magazine ran one well into the 1990s I think - he designed a thyristor power supply for it in the issue that deals with servicing the Thorn TX100 - light blue cover).

There was the Beovision 1400 before which was a hybrid, it looks a bit like a Thorn 1500 inside until you realise that there's another chassis down the side with all the tuner / IF / video stuff on it. This was the first set that you could buy in the UK with a UHF varicap tuner, that was late 1968. B&O were leaders in this field, the Beolit 500 table radio used varicap tuning for VHF/FM reception in 1966, complete with a 22.5V hearing aid battery for the bias).

The first B&O TV you could buy in the UK was the Beovision 3000 colour set. It appeared in early 1968 and was notable for being the first single standard UHF set to be offered in the UK. You could only get BBC2 on it, but the performance was so good that they still sold quite a few of them. The 1400 monochrome models (all 24" but availalbe in 3 cabinet styles) followed shortly afterwards.

Returning to the 1600, it is of a generation that preceeded the Philips 320 and the RBM A816 and so is unusual to the UK observer in many ways. It succeeds through the use of carefully designed circuitry rather than special ICs; its black level performance in particular is outstanding. It has an odd power supply made up of multiple power transistors which form an 'electronic mains dropper', it is in effect a linear regulator running straight off the mains. The reference for this comes from a winding on the line transformer so the line scan energy is stabilised against changes in mains voltage and beam current. Apparently it will regulate down to about 100V at the input, although this is compltely useless as the tube heater is fed from a mains transformer so the picture disappears long before you get this low...
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Old 14th Dec 2023, 10:55 am   #44
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

As usual B&O doing things their way!

I have a 1400 mono (B&O, not Thorn!) which has sadly been divorced from its cabinet which was used to make an infamous cocktail cabinet despite my best interventions. It works, but is a bit precarious...
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Old 14th Dec 2023, 1:04 pm   #45
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

I would assume that once we joined the EEC, our import taxes and restrictions on Japanese goods would have given way to the EEC norm for the time. Which is another part of the reason that later in the 70s, we started seeing more Japanese cameras, cars and electronic goods.

I only ever saw one modern looking large screen, presumably solid state, monochrome TV...and it was quite a surprise. In the mid 80s I was visiting a friend's grandmother, and she had a 24" B&W set that was very modern looking for the time. Black plastic surround, soft-ish touch controls. No remote though. She said she wasn't going to pay for a colour license so she bought a big B&W TV a couple of years previously to replace one from the late 60s that had broken down.

Memory wants to say it was a Philips but that might not be correct.
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Old 14th Dec 2023, 2:18 pm   #46
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

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Originally Posted by Gulliver View Post
I only ever saw one modern looking large screen, presumably solid state, monochrome TV...and it was quite a surprise. In the mid 80s I was visiting a friend's grandmother, and she had a 24" B&W set that was very modern looking for the time. Black plastic surround, soft-ish touch controls.

Memory wants to say it was a Philips but that might not be correct.
Quite possibly one of these Pyes using the E2 chassis although this isn't a great example as it's had a replacement tuner bodged in...
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Old 14th Dec 2023, 11:17 pm   #47
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

Sounds like the set I saw in my local Cash Converters I mentioned earlier.
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Old 15th Dec 2023, 8:44 pm   #48
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

There's a picture of a Beovision 1400 for those who haven't seen one. Note the delicate varicap tuner buttons, this was the first set to have them in the UK. The mains switch is a little toggle just above, the same as on the (yet to be released) Beomaster 3000 hi-fi receiver.

This one is a 1400SJ, it is a table model with a door. There was also a 1400K (no door) and 1400KJ (proper cabinet model with legs and the speaker underneath). Forum member Bobby Ball has this one now.
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Old 16th Dec 2023, 12:10 pm   #49
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

I do indeed still
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Old 18th Dec 2023, 11:01 am   #50
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colourstar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulliver View Post
I only ever saw one modern looking large screen, presumably solid state, monochrome TV...and it was quite a surprise. In the mid 80s I was visiting a friend's grandmother, and she had a 24" B&W set that was very modern looking for the time. Black plastic surround, soft-ish touch controls.

Memory wants to say it was a Philips but that might not be correct.
Quite possibly one of these Pyes using the E2 chassis although this isn't a great example as it's had a replacement tuner bodged in...

The memory plays tricks of course, but I recall it having the channel selector buttons, which were softer touch, bottom right with the loudspeaker grille above. I do remember looking at it to see if it was somehow a colour set with the colour turned right down, but there was no "colour" knob.

At that point in time the only B&W sets I had seen on sale were 14" and smaller, including the little 5" screens in boomboxes. The larger B&W sets I knew of were all 1960s valve/hybrid models.
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Old 18th Dec 2023, 1:05 pm   #51
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

Didn't Iskra (from the then Yugoslavia), have some larger screen models from the late seventies early eighties? My grandfather had a varicap tuned pushbutton set that I think was 24"... I have seen one since with the same chassis, but 17" and possibly still varicap tuning, though rotary pot and reduction drive. Nondescript looking charcoal grey fronted plastic cabinet with wood effect top and sides, they worked well enough though.

I was told they were your choice if you wanted a BW rental set from the "Hubbards" TV shop in town.
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Old 18th Dec 2023, 1:08 pm   #52
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

Here is my experience of a 24 inch Ferguson 1615 back in the early 80s. The picture was a bit lacklustre but bright ISTR and the tuner was sensitive. In the picture, the set is displaying a picture from Croydon/Crystal Palace from south-east Essex on an indoor mounted caravan aerial.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...4&postcount=13
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Old 18th Dec 2023, 5:42 pm   #53
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

As far as I know the CRTs in the 1615 were sourced from Eastern Europe and were pretty poor, especially when viewed alongside the contemporary Mullard or Philips, though Mullard did import some later in production.

There were some Unitra sets with hefty wooden cabinets and a hybrid chassis imported in the mid Eighties - something of a surprise to see valves when we thought they had well gone by then!
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Old 18th Dec 2023, 10:23 pm   #54
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

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Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
There were some Unitra sets with hefty wooden cabinets and a hybrid chassis imported in the mid Eighties - something of a surprise to see valves when we thought they had well gone by then!
They're still commonly found in cellars and attics here in Poland. Nobody still uses them, of course - they were rapidly displaced by cheap imported colour sets in the 1990s, which in turn have all been rendered obsolete by flatscreens - but of the communist-era survivors, large screen mono sets seem far more common than colour ones. Here are a couple of examples from a search on one popular trading site this evening:
https://allegrolokalnie.pl/oferta/te...a-kolekcjonera
https://allegrolokalnie.pl/oferta/te...iemdziesiatych

They do look modern, in their own particular way!

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Old 19th Dec 2023, 10:37 am   #55
Welsh Anorak
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

Ooh - not seen one of those for a while! Equivalent GBP is around £20 for the first one and £40 for the second. Wonder if there will be any takers?
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Old 20th Dec 2023, 4:00 pm   #56
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Default Re: Large screen solid state monochrome sets.

The TV in post 55 looks very much like the unitra b/w TV my old Polish Aunty had in Warsaw. It broke down during one of my visits in 1993. I had a look at it for her but couldn't fix it due to lack of tools/test equipment etc. But I think the tube has gone. I was proved right on a subsequent visit. I noticed it was still in use in 2000.

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