Rubber sleeve idents / markers - printing numbers/letters

[ScottBouch]

Hi all,

I have spent years around vintage aircraft (50's/60's), and am familiar with pink rubber wire sleeves marked with circuit ID's, consisting of numerals and alphabet letters.

I have a modern heat-shrink printer, but I was wondering how in the 1960's people would be marking the circuit identities to the rubber sleeves?

I have some pink rubber sleeves that I wish to use on a project, but wanted to make them look authentic by printing idents in the same way.

I was wondering if they could be done with suitable mounting and an ink stamp along the lines of these?
https://www.staples.co.uk/office-sup...ry/ink-stamps/

Any thoughts on this? Has anyone done this?

Cheers, Scott.

[Julesomega]

Are you thinking of the Hellermann colour-coded and printed rings that slip on the cable? I've got a few if you want any particular numbers

[ScottBouch]

Hi Julian,

No, not those rings, I am on about the sleeves you would use to insulate a joint or bundle a group of wires, applied with Hellermann pliers (stretchers, and various unsavory other names).

I will post photos of a couple of examples later on.

Cheers, Scott

[ScottBouch]

Please see attached images of an example loom/bundle identification sleeve.

"U251" has been printed/stamped onto this rubber sleeve somehow. This is from an English Electric Lightning built in 1966.

The sleeves appear a dark red/maroon colour. I imagine they have faded darker over the years, as I have some other pieces of equipment which do appear as a much lighter pink colour.

I have some new-old-stock pink sleeves, packed in 1982 which I would like to mark in a similar fashion to the originals as I am planning on making some new wiring harnesses and want an original look to them.

But the big question is how would the lettering have been marked onto the sleeve?

There is a high chance that this may have been a Hellermann made cable marking system, but I am unsure currently.

Cheers, Scott.

[ScottBouch]

Here are some adverts from the Hellermann marking system, which this ident may have been produced by.

However, I have no further details as to how the marking system would work, or what equipment is required for marking the sleeves.

Cheers, Scott.

[Julesomega]

Ok, I know those, still have some and the 'stretcher' tool but I don't recall any marking system at the places where I worked

[factory]

Originally Posted by ScottBouch

I have some new-old-stock pink sleeves, packed in 1982 which I would like to mark in a similar fashion to the originals as I am planning on making some new wiring harnesses and want an original look to them.

If they are that old, chances are they will have perished and will split when you try fitting them, we had various with letters & numbers at work, sometimes it would take quite a few to get one fitted, without them pinging off never to be seen again.

And yes they get darker with age & use and can be hard to read.

I would guess they supplied them with custom markings, of course we now use a printer for heatshink, but that can rub off with use & the wrong cleaner.

David

[vidjoman]

When I was an apprentice, 65 years ago, we used some pre-printed sleeves but others we marked with a pen that contained 'Indian ink' which was supposed to be permanent. There are pens available that claim to be permanent, even when used on items that go in the washing machine. I have one in my workshop and it appears to be a permanent marker.

[Cobaltblue]

When I was at Plessy Avionics and Comunication in the mid 1970s the factory used a lot of these sleeves.

As I was in the design team rather than production our sleeves were hand written by the wireman using the ubiquitous rotoring draftsmans pen. Our prototype wireman had amazingly tidy writing.

As far as I know sleeves in production arrived pre printed.

Certainly there was a drawerful of pre printed sleves and idents.

You never forget the smell of Hellerine oil

I still have my sleeve fitting tool.

Cheers

Mike T

[Craig Sawyers]

Surprisingly Rotring still do the fine nib draughting pens in different nib sizes, the ink to go with them, and the cleaning fluid.

My old ones from forty-odd years ago are gummed up beyond repair! But these pens would seem to be pretty good for hand writing idents on Hellerman sleeves, as Mike has indicated.

Craig

[Lucien Nunes]

Our company, back in the days when they were defence subcontractors, also used printed Helsyn sleeves. I have a biscuit tin of them containing packs in various states of preparedness, that also contains some paperwork. I've no idea whether it will give any clues as to how the sleeves were printed, but I can't ask the man who gave me the box as he's no longer alive, and I fear the same is true of anyone from the generation involved in those projects. I will keep an eye out for the tin.

I agree that printing and fitting sleeves that are already 40 years old might not work. Pink Helsyns are still available, not sure whether the full historical range of sizes, in unlubricated versions which I expect would be necessary for printing. I remember the day I discovered pre-lubricated ones though!

[ScottBouch]

Thank you for the guidance so far - very interesting that the printing of sleeves would be done by the supplier, and delivered ready to be fitted.

So I need to aim my questions at people who worked at Hellermann (and suppliers of their products) in this era, but as mentioned, if this question was raised 10+ years ago I'd have had more luck with finding people still alive and kicking who were of working age back in the 1950's/60's.

I have just looked into rOtring pens, and that's a whole other can of worms: https://www.rotring.co.uk/heritage.html - and Indian ink... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_ink

Any hint as to the specific type of rOtring pens you recall being used would be appreciated. If I go down this route, I will need to improve my handwriting!

Many thanks again, Scott.

[Mark1960]

We used to use rotring pens back in the early 80s for drawing schematics on transparent sheets with a matt surface for use with an ozalid printer to make copies. These pens used to work well with templates for neat lettering, so if you do go that route try and also find the lettering templates. These had small pips on the bottom side to keep a slight gap between the template and the sheet to avoid capillary action of the ink between the template and the sheet. I think the rotring pens we used were 0.35mm, but it was a long time ago.

[David G4EBT]

Originally Posted by ScottBouch

Here are some adverts from the Hellermann marking system, which this ident may have been produced by.

However, I have no further details as to how the marking system would work, or what equipment is required for marking the sleeves.

Cheers, Scott.

HellermanTyton still exists - some of their products are listed on Rapid Electronic's site, albeit not what you are looking for:

https://www.rapidonline.com/brands/hellermanntyton

HellermannTyton's own website is here:

https://www.hellermanntyton.co.uk

They don't do retail, but maybe could answer your query, and if they do make any products you might need, could put you in touch with a distributor.

Hope that might help.

[ScottBouch]

Originally Posted by Mark1960

We used to use rotring pens back in the early 80s for drawing schematics on transparent sheets with a matt surface for use with an ozalid printer to make copies. These pens used to work well with templates for neat lettering, so if you do go that route try and also find the lettering templates. These had small pips on the bottom side to keep a slight gap between the template and the sheet to avoid capillary action of the ink between the template and the sheet. I think the rotring pens we used were 0.35mm, but it was a long time ago.

Hi Mark,

You have just reminded me of childhood memories, my dad was a draughtsman, and I do recall the transparent sheets you mentioned, and also the stencils with little pips. Some of the pens seen on the rOtring website do remind me of seeing his back in the 80s.

So, yes, failing some method of printing or stamping, using a lettering stencil and marker pen of sorts would be a good solution.

As for contacting Hellermann (Ref: David G4EBT), I've tried this with other companies when looking for information from the middle of the century, they generally have no records left, and all staff from that era are long since retired. Its hard to find anyone who will even take an interest in these "old fashioned" topics, but it may be worth an email, thanks..

Cheers, Scott.

[red16v]

If you do contact Hellermann, it might be worth asking if there is any sort of ex-employee or pensioners association they could put you in contact with. There may be some retired employee who knows exactly what you need to know.

[Vintage Engr]

As an alternative, you could use one of the Brother labelling machines. I have the electricians version, which not only accepts various widths of tape labels, but also is capable of printing on to their own brand of heat-shrink sleeving.

That way you can have variuos colours of sleeve, any length, various diameters and print on to it the legends of your choice, which can include numerals, standard lettering & a plethora of electronic symbols.

David.

[Craig Sawyers]

https://www.heatshrink.com/

Craig

[G6Tanuki]

I've used the Brother P-touch machines in the past with great success.

As to how the original printing was done, I don't know; my uncle who developed the first machines used for printing little lions and date-codes on eggs - and who knew vast amounts about the technologies used in times-past - sadly died in 2018...

[ScottBouch]

Hi all,

Last night i opened one of the 1982 packs of pink ex-RAF sleeves, and tried stretching a sleeve with my Hellermann pliers... astonishingly it was as it if was brand new!!!! No hint of perishing, no tears, and returnd to its normal sixe after giving it a good testing.

Very impressed.

As for marking them, i have a modern heat-shrink printer ( a rather good one) but it is only capable of long unbroken lengths, it cuts the sleeves when printed. Als it couldnt cope with the thickness of these sleeves.

Cheers, Scott