UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Telephony and Telecomms

Notices

Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 27th Mar 2010, 2:35 am   #1
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Hi All, I am converting a 232 to work on the modern network running through a bell box.

The telephone has its orriginal line cord that I have put connectors on and checked all good conections etc. the line cord from the bell set is a modern braided cord.

I have looked at the two following links and am confused as to how to marry the two together succesfully.

http://www.britishtelephones.com/bellst26.htm

http://www.britishtelephones.com/pstconv1.htm#232

Can someone help with my confusion please and give me a bit of an hand

thanks
andy
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 4:08 pm   #2
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

As far as I can see, all you need to do is to wire the two units in parallel with each other, following the instructions given for each one.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 6:03 pm   #3
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Hmm this is where i get confused, ie like the two sets of instructions tell you to put the resistor on different terminals. i will go look again.
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 7:22 pm   #4
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Right, I now see your confusion. The instructions for the 232 include the wiring for the bellset. I was looking at the version without the bellset and treating the two as separate instruments.

You can probably ignore the wiring instructions in the bellset page and simply wire as given under 232. Although the two wirings for the bellset are different, it looks like either one will achieve the same result - they simply put the resistor at opposite ends of the bell coil.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now  
Old 28th Mar 2010, 8:47 pm   #5
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Thanks for your help that made sense in the end, I have wired it so but now its running as if the phone is constantly off hook. and i cant dial. I wonder if my wiring is screwy?

Last edited by Dave Moll; 28th Mar 2010 at 10:26 pm. Reason: unecessary quote of preceding post removed
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2010, 10:36 pm   #6
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

When you say that it is behaving as though the 'phone is constantly off-hook, presumably any attempt to call into your line while the 232 is plugged in results in line busy.

Do you mean that you can't dial from the 232 or that you can't dial from any 'phone attached to the line?

Also, do you hear a dial tone (on this 'phone and/or on others)?

I wonder whether you have something within the 232 shorting out the line.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now  
Old 28th Mar 2010, 11:18 pm   #7
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

My woring was up the creek it know works although I did have to do one peice of educated guesswork that I would like to check with someone knowledgable.

I wired the red wire of the linecord to bellset terminal 5 and the white of the telephone cord to terminal 5, That means they are just connected and not running through any of the componenets on the bell box. Is this correct? it does work.

I have found that I am getting bell tinkle when releasing the dial. Whats the lily cause of this?
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2010, 8:50 pm   #8
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

If you have wired both the red and white wires of the linecord to the same terminal, this would explain the symptoms which you describe above, as connecting them together is shorting out the line. According to the instructions, the red wire should go to B7 (not B5).

Please double check that you have connected everything as given in Bob Freshwater's instructions.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now  
Old 11th Apr 2010, 12:08 pm   #9
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Sorry to bring this up again,

but has anyone got one of these wired and can confirm what wires go to which terminals, im complely confused. I m using a modern PSTN terminated line cord to the beelset and the original fabric coverd line cord from the telephone and im.

Many thanks in advance
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2010, 12:58 pm   #10
Ronald1954
Retired Dormant Member
 
Ronald1954's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rotterdam Zuid Holland
Posts: 14
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

I have found that I am getting bell tinkle when releasing the dial. Whats the lily cause of this?
The bell is connect parallel on the line, then the bell tinkels when you dialing.
Ronald1954 is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2010, 1:07 pm   #11
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millay_2010 View Post

'...but has anyone got one of these wired...'
I haven't (though I did many years ago), but I'll tell you how I would do it in accordance with the original circuit-diagrams. Give it a go! - You have nothing to lose.

In your 232, locate and identify terminals 1, 2, 3.

In your bellset 26, identify and locate terminals 1, 2, 3.

Connect these sets of terminals together, number-for-number, using your three-core braided cord.

To connect your standard BT plug and lead, you'll need to do the following:

Disconnect the 2uF capacitor from terminals 2 and 3 in your bellset.

Remove the link between terminal 7 and terminal 8 in your bellset, and replace it with a 3K resistor.

Connect the white wire of your standard BT plug and lead to terminal 7.

Connect the blue wire of your standard BT plug and lead to terminal 3.

Connect the red wire of your standard BT plug and lead to terminal 5.

See how you get on with that, and let us know.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	232-PLUG-LEAD.jpg
Views:	556
Size:	34.6 KB
ID:	34369  
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 11th Apr 2010, 3:20 pm   #12
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald1954 View Post
I have found that I am getting bell tinkle when releasing the dial. Whats the lily cause of this?
The likely cause is thet your Dial-Off-Normal contacts are dirty, and are not shunting the bell (via the non-inductive resistive winding on the induction-coil and one pair of the contacts on the cradle-switch), thus allowing 'tinkle'.

Check your DON contacts and your cradle switch contacts with an Ohm-meter, and ensure that you measure a short-circuit when the contacts are closed. If you don't measure a short-circuit, clean the contacts until you do.
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 12:30 pm   #13
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Hi Russel Thanks for your help so far.

I have wired as per your instructions and it almost works.

I had to wire the red of the line cord to terminal 6 not 5 as 5 is a dumb terminal after i disconected the capacitor.

Now re-reading your instructions I wonder if you meant to remove the strap between terminals 2 and 3 on the bellset. i instead physically snipped the white wire from the capacitor. Was this correct?

I can now get a dial tone but no ringing.

Where next? did i screw the wiring up, shalll i get my soldering iron out
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 1:53 pm   #14
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

I was referring to connections in the bellset. I was assuming that the drawing I posted would be the same as how your instrument is wired as well! According to my drawing, terminal 6 (bellset) is a bell centre-tap. Could you post a cct of your particular instrument just in case the wiring is different to the one I posted?

If you can make your wiring the same as the cct-diagram I posted, then you should be OK. Don't worry about reconnecting the capacitor, as it is no longer needed (its function will be taken by the capacitor in your master-socket). All you are trying to do is get the bell between blue and white wires (of your BT plug-in line cord) on its own, as well as connecting the blue wire (BT line-cord) to one set of cradle-switch contacts.

The white wire (of your BT line-cord) should be connected to one leg of your bell-bobbins (via a 3K resistor) and to the other set of cradle-switch contacts.

The red wire (of your BT line-cord) should be connected to the dial pulsing contacts, and should not be connected to any part of the bellset. All the above is shown on my attached drawing.

Can you dial out as well as loop the line for dial-tone? If your bell doesn't ring, you'll need to prove that it works. With your multimeter on 'Ohms' range, what resistance do you see across each bell-coil bobbin? What do you see across terminals 2 and 8 in your bellset? You can prove the bell by connecting the blue and white wires of your BT line-cord directly to the bell terminals, plugging it in, and seeing if the bell rings when you call it up.
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 3:52 pm   #15
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Hi My bellset is wired as per N526.

I attach this as an image, I have cut whe white wire to the capacitor. this then forms my confusion as attaching the red of the line cord to terminal 5 leaves it terminating to knowehere.
The only difference is that terminals 7-8 have a resistor inline not a strap.

Does that make sense, its been many years since i have read circuit diagrams, hence i thought telephones would be a good re-introduction to electronics.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bs 26.jpg
Views:	939
Size:	55.6 KB
ID:	34409  
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 4:20 pm   #16
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

OK; makes perfect sense, and I'll assume that you are taking your standard BT plug and lead into the bellset, and not into the telephone.
  • Leave your capacitor cut as it is - that's OK.
  • Using your three-wire braided lead, connect terminal 3 of the TELEPHONE to terminal 5 of the BELLSET. Connect the RED wire of your BT standard plug and lead to terminal 5 of your BELLSET. Terminal 5 is no longer a 'dumb' terminal, but is the link between your BT standard lead red wire and your telephone instrument (albeit routed through the bellset).
  • Using your three-wire braided lead, connect terminal 2 of the TELEPHONE to terminal 2 of the BELLSET. Connect the BLUE wire of your BT standard plug and lead to terminal 2 of your BELLSET.
  • Using your three-wire braided lead, connect terminal 1 of the TELEPHONE to terminal 7 of the BELLSET. Connect the WHITE wire of your BT standard plug and lead to terminal 7 of your BELLSET.
  • Leave the links as per the drawing you posted (otherwise it changes any wiring I've mentioned!), ie: 2-3; 4-5; 1-7. The drawing you posted is identical to the one I posted, but keep your 3K (or 3K3) resistor between terminals 7 and 8. Refer to the numbers on my drawing if in doubt - you should be able to follow it through.

I was wrong to say originally, 1 - 1, 2 - 2, 3 - 3. That referred to the terminal strip shown on my drawing, not the actual bellset connections, although I nearly did mention them!
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 9:43 pm   #17
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Worked like a treat, i can not thank you enough, and my knowledge has increased seven fold so again thank you...
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2010, 10:30 pm   #18
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millay_2010 View Post
'Worked like a treat'
Excellent stuff - glad you persevered!

The RWB rough guide to telephones...

FIXING UP - STAGE ONE:

Assuming one is armed with a working master / slave BT line system and a sound BT standard plug and lead, the wiring of many telephones is remarkably similar in principle, with, perhaps, slight differences as to how various manufacturers arrange their circuitry. So, check out your home telephone wiring and the lead and plug you are using - it'll save on heartache later on.

FIXING UP - STAGE TWO:

The telephone should first be wired so that the white wire is taken to a point common to speech circuitry, line-loop (usually via the microphone initially) and bell, the red wire to the other side of the speech circuitry and line loop, and the blue wire to the other side of the bell at a point between the original bell capacitor and the bell. Some paster drawings are quite convoluted, and the thing that works best for me is to take a copy, print it out, and re-draw it (again and again if necessary), scrubbing out with a distinctive pen each wire and component on the original drawing copy as you go. Mark down wire colours and terminal numbers on your own drawing for reference. Forget about the Dial Off-Normal contacts until last (pretend it's a CB telephone), but don't forget about the dial pulse contacts - they're part of the loop.

The original bell capacitor can be regarded as replaced by the capacitor in the master LJU (Line Jack Unit), and so can be disconnected. Where many telephones differ is at this point, as the capacitor will probably have other functions (DC blocking to the receiver, spark-quenching), and so the original capacitor's removal must not be extended to other wiring. Isolate it as near to the capacitor as possible without affecting anything else.

FIXING UP - STAGE THREE:

Once you have this set-up and the telephone can dial out, ring, and make the loop (ie: receive dial-tone when the handset is lifted), any other little niggles can be found and dealt with, a 3K (or 3K3) bell resistor added and improvements made to mic and receiver, if necessary.

I have given the colours of a standard BT plug and lead: red, green, blue, white. You may find instead that black, red, green and yellow respectively have been used.

This post does not take into account faulty components or other modifications to the original telephone wiring either... You'll need to sort that out as you come across it. But... Armed with your own drawn-out circuit diagram, you'll never learn younger!
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2010, 2:02 pm   #19
Millay_2010
Hexode
 
Millay_2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 315
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Nice guide well written..
Millay_2010 is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2010, 7:24 pm   #20
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Wiring a 232 to a bellset no 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by russell_w_b View Post
I have given the colours of a standard BT plug and lead: red, green, blue, white. You may find instead that black, red, green and yellow respectively have been used.
Interestingly, the black/red/green/yellow leads which I have equate black to white and yellow to red, which is the opposite way round from yours.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 4:43 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.