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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 11th Dec 2018, 10:45 pm   #1
johnwhal78
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Default HMV 102D Gramophone.

Well must admit have really been bitten by the Gramophone bug and have now purchased a 'non-working' HMV 102D. Serial number shows B over 6 which I presume is a 1942 model.

Now I have been told it has been 'overwound' - What should I be expecting here? Having to replace the main spring?

The rest of the machine looks in reasonable condition and nothing that a good tidy up won't sort out.

john
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Old 11th Dec 2018, 11:26 pm   #2
Techman
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Does that mean overwinding it to the point where it's broken the spring?

You'll soon know when you try to wind it.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 2:32 am   #3
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

So what was the result of whether this gramophone is broken or not?

I'm guessing from what you've said that although you've bought this gramophone, you don't actually have it in your possession yet - is that right?

Expect being 'overwound' to mean "it doesn't work, so I'll say it's been overwound", or "I wound it and the spring broke with a bang, so I'll just say that I think it's been overwound".

If either of the above is the case, please remember the forum rules about not saying bad things about people that sell things - particularly broken things.

Good luck with it and let us know the outcome.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 8:51 am   #4
johnwhal78
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Hello , No I bought this with the knowledge that it was not working.

It arrived yesterday. It is in surprisingly good condition case wise, soundbox, etc. But when I first picked it up there was something rather loud bouncing about in the case under the motor.

After taking off the motorboard I found that the governor was rolling about in the bottom of the case !!! - One of the weights had also come loose (this seems to held on by a spring clip, and luckily this was also in the bottom of the case.)

The clip holding the cover to the main spring case had also come free.

I cannot for the life of me see how the governor could come free like that unless someone had been trying to fix it before hand and gave up .

I will replace the governor and check the spring and see where this takes me.

regards John

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Old 13th Dec 2018, 2:02 pm   #5
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Hello - Yes,the main spring is broken, about 20 cms from the end.

The governor went back together ok and seems fine

John
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 2:52 pm   #6
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Hi John - can you let us know which motor you have?

My own experience with an HMV 101 was that the motor benefited from a complete strip down, thorough clean and re-grease, notwithstanding your need to repair and re-grease that main spring.

Hardest part for me was reassembling the governor as the bearings have to be accurately positioned to engage properly with the drive worm wheel - I had a clicking sound (slipping gear) that took a few attempts to resolve.

Keep us up to date on progress and as usual, some pictures would help.
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 7:49 pm   #7
johnwhal78
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Hi Donald - its the 270-D Motor.

It looks as though the governor had been removed beforehand but had not been replaced . and the bearings looked as though they had been put the wrong way round.

Watching Graham Barber's video showing the dismantling of the HMV 59 and the comments about the governor there.

http://www.restore-a-gram.co.uk/hmv-...tle/4589562019

The bearings appear to be very similar (they have the same 'cut-outs') and it is critical which way round they go.

I will try and post some pictures asap.

John

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Old 13th Dec 2018, 8:08 pm   #8
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Pictures 1 and 2 Governor back in position, and bearings right way round

Picture 3 Broken main spring - Yuk !!!
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Old 13th Dec 2018, 9:17 pm   #9
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Good job and well done for cracking the governor bearings conundrum - a very tactile and satisfying experience!

Remember to follow the lubrication instructions.

The video from Graham Barber is indeed essential viewing for such jobs - can't recommend this and the rest of his website enough.

Hopefully Barry (Audio1950) will be along soon to give advice and guidance on what to do with that spring - without his support and encouragement my HMV 101 would still be in a cardboard box in a state of disassembly.

Attempts to remove and clean the spring come with severe health warnings so be extra careful if you do try it yourself!
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 9:37 am   #10
johnwhal78
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Hello Danald - Thanks for the words of encouragement.

The 102 is my project. I also have a HMV 109 which is in daily use.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 10:57 am   #11
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Default Re: HMV 102D Gramophone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldStott View Post

Hopefully Barry (Audio1950) will be along soon to give advice and guidance on what to do with that spring - without his support and encouragement my HMV 101 would still be in a cardboard box in a state of disassembly.
Thank you, Donald! As to the spring concerned, there is only one answer - a replacement. Even if the centre could be re-formed, which is a very difficult job, losing that much spring from the centre coils would result in a loss of power.

Barry
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