Is it worth repairing?

[Nickthedentist]

The "unfair" valve prices are, as Al implies, in part due to vintage audiophiles (often oversaeas) with deep pockets. This is unfortunate for hobbyists like me who like fixing-up worthless woodies, but as Al says, valves rarely need replacing and the other components are generally cheap, so it's time, effort and skill which are the limiting factor for me nowadays.

[ThePillenwerfer]

As with anything the question is: What is it worth TO ME.

I'm a bit different to a lot of members as I've never set-out to "Collect" or "Restore" radios. I've fixed plenty but have never paid for expensive parts for how they look. That's not a criticism of anybody; we're all free to do what we like with our own money, time and property.

I would be loath to buy exotic valves or have transformers re-wound as plugging a replacement valve in or re-fitting a repaired transformer doesn't provide much fun. I'd find it more entertaining to find ways around problems, like how to replace a PX4 with an EL84.

Because I don't collect I've usually mended things and sold them to liberate money and space for the next one. I don't think I've ever made a financial loss on any, and have made a tidy profit on a few.

[turretslug]

It's easy to see how the "I don't go out to collect, but I seem to have acquired a lot of stuff....." syndrome develops- even a mundane '50s AM-only set is difficult to walk away from when it probably only needs "that cap" and a mains lead to have the satisfaction of it coming to life and the big paper speaker and wooden case showing how easy on the ear it can be. At that point, it's difficult to just chuck it out, as maybe one should have done to start with! I think many would go along with the point mentioned that the resuscitation can become an end in itself.

[stevehertz]

I simply don't agree with the notion that valves for vintage sets are expensive. Yes, yes.. there are some expensive ones, but in general you can get a valve for a few pounds at most from fellow collectors, forum members, or from vintage wireless and communications fairs. Or as I've already said, if you do this hobby long enough you simply 'acquire', without trying too hard, healthy stocks of used valves. And again, the incumbent valves in most used sets are serviceable anyway. Ok, they're perhaps not '100% emission' on a valve tester, but more often than not they work just fine in a set.

[bikerhifinut]

Completely with you on that one Steve.

A.

[G6Tanuki]

True: if you look through old copies of "Practical Wireless" etc. at the ads for valves, then adjust the prices for inflation and compare the adjusted prices to similarly-adjusted average wages back then, the current prices for valves are still remarkably affordable.

Paying Bentley Acoustic Corporation 24 shillings (£1.20) for an off-brand KT66 back in 1961 may sound cheap but back then a technician might only have been earning a tenner a week.

[teetoon]

I can relate to that. In 1974 I worked in a local repair shop and we had KT88 valves at £3.75 each (cheap brand maybe Z&I) ?
My wages were £10 a week rising to £15 after the first year.

David.

[Sideband]

Originally Posted by Nightcruiser

Sadly, on the other side of the coin I’ve witnessed more and more selfish greed among other collectors turned ‘businessmen’ and people who are more than prepared to extort and push the market as much as they can from those wishing to start up or even continue this hobby.

I've met a few....I avoid them...if they want to hoard their spares then fine....let them. Whatever you say to them it won't affect what they do. I've been to a few swapmeets where I've seen so-called desirable items being squirrelled away either for themselves or for like-minded friends.

Fortunately there are more genuine that non-genuine collectors and you probably find this sort of thing going on with all hobbies...vintage cars come to mind and probably model trains as well.

[Cobaltblue]

Originally Posted by Nightcruiser

whether many old sets now are really worth restoring and saving. After all, valves are no longer easily obtainable at a fair price and some components are getting near impossible to find. If we want a replacement valve from a website we are generally screwed over so isn’t it best just to move on these days?

I hate to say it, but really a lot of collectors are being forced away from the hobby they enjoy.

Going Back to the original post who are these collectors who are moving on to other things? None in my circle of friends and fellow collectors I can't believe I am unique in that
I don't think I ever bought a set and though thats going to cost a lot to restore. I once waited almost 20 years to find the parts to complete a restoration. (McMichael 367).

Originally Posted by Nightcruiser

That depends Andy on where they are obtained from and who you know doesn’t it?

Depends who you know I have collected radios for almost 50 years been a BVWS member for more than 30 years I suspect in that time I have got to know many other collectors pretty well, do they help me yes they do! do I help them? I certainly try!

I am sorry but there are two posts that have niggled me recently this one that comes across as the me me me generation not getting an instant fix at 1970's prices (well you had to be there and collecting didn't you) and one complaining about older collectors "hoarding spares". Thank you but I will hoard as much as I like I was the one travelling thousands of miles spending thousands of hours scouring boot sales second hand shops small adds to build up spares for my collection over a period of that 50 years.

Cheers

Mike T

[high_vacuum_house]

One of the enjoyments of the spring and summer time is the various ham radio fairs and radio bootsales dotted around the country. I am usually about at some of these on a Sunday morning having a good rummage. I go with a friend and both of us normally finish with interesting acquisitions. Mine are usually heavier though!

DDRC Luton in May, Newbury radio rally flight refuelling hamfest and Spalding are just a few of the great events with admission a pound or so.

There are usually lots of goodies to be had for pocket money prices if you are willing to kneel on the grass and go through boxes of valves, parts and equipment usually under the tables. Items like air spaced variable capacitors (expensive if bought new) can be had for 50p-£1. Valves 1-2 pounds each.

There are usually many old oscilloscopes, oscillators, meters, tools and workshop items available very much cheaper than buying new.

You can get radios and test equipment there fairly cheaply as people start packing away in the afternoon.

Christopher Capener

[Lloyd 1985]

Most of the stuff I have probably wasn't worth repairing in monetary terms, but it was worth it to me, for the time spent pushing my skills to the limits, and learning new skills. The main thing was getting enjoyment out of it! Some people get enjoyment out of sitting for hours on end playing Playstation games, is that worth it? To me, not in the slightest! Although I have spent some time playing such games myself, they were just a sink hole for time...

I have paid quite a bit for some of my collection, probably more than it was really worth, and have then gone on to spend more on it getting it working and looking good, one item being an Ekco AC76, it was in a terrible state, cabinet broken, and badly repaired, knobs missing, tuning spindle broken off, full of rust! I spent the best part of 6 months on it! I stripped the chassis and re-painted it, re-assembled it, replaced a few components, bashed the cabinet apart and re-set the broken pieces, even made a mould of an undamaged part of the textured front and used it with resin to hide the cracks, had a new tuning spindle made, and cast a set of knobs. It's now one of my best sets, sounds fantastic, and looks great too. Was it worth it? Damn right it was! I enjoyed every minute of that restoration, and it kept me sane in a very tough year.

Regards,
Lloyd.

[dave walsh]

As Christopher says there is plenty of "stuff" available. He clearly gets around a lot to know [he's even been to Rammy-now there's a spot for a Rally-I could empty the house]. The natural ageing process probably helps. Lots of us seem to be "downsizing" for one reason on another these days. Mike T is right about the Me Generation attitude. Someone pointed out a possible difference in mind set between restorers/enthusiasts and "collectors" earlier which I think is very pertinent. It's like the divide being whipped up between the generations and how "favoured" we greedy older ones have all been. Not without putting in the effort or making sacrifices I'd suggest-it didn't feel so favoured at the time.

A young woman was the subject of a recent article about trying to save a for a house deposit. She said even sacrificing £8 Advocado sandwiches [I kid you not] wouldn't help much-well it would help some When deciding between saving all her monies for a home [quite a bit in the pot already] or splitting it with a holiday fund she went with taking the holidays. No concept that previous generations of "young people" stayed in with or without future partners and spent very little for years in order to make progress-expensive holidays?

Some contributors have speculated about a future world where components aren't around and may have to be excavated for re-use-just like we do now.
I think it would probaly take a very long time before we reached that position but we can cope. Even with the vast amounts of surplus after WW2 it was still "make do and mend" if you didn't have that much money [like most people]. In a Radio Constructor Mag I received from a Forum member recently [June 1950] there is an article about a General Purpose Quality Amplifier built from the remains of a Broadcast Receiver that had gone up in flames. Only three valves were of use a 6SK7 RF Pentode, a 6SL7 double triode and a 6F6 Beam Tetrode. The last two valves were employed [pre-amp and OP stage] along with the recovered MainsTr/OP Tr and LF Choke. Half the Mains TR winding was u/s so half wave rectification was employed [logical] via a 6X5 with strapped anodes. The result re this phoenix risen from the ashes was apparently very acceptable. Back to the future?

Dave W

[Tractionist]

As Dave W alludes [and more - asserts!] .... per 'value': it's all about perception and sometimes forebearance. Never forget that we are living in an age whereat some will pay nigh on £5.00 for a cup of 'designer coffee'; £3.50 + for a pint [my favourite unitary currency]; and ..... pushing £1,000.00 for a new 'telephone' [which the GPO would hitherto throw in 'free' with the subscribers line rental].

"You [definitely] pays yer money and takes yer choice ......."

[G8UWM-MildMartin]

Regarding the price of valves, people sometimes specify that they want a complete set of NOS, boxed and of a particular make and construction in the wanted ads. They are likely to be relatively rare and expensive, but many collectors have stock of tested good ones or equivalents that have decades of life left that they would be happy to let the odd one go at a much more reasonable price to someone who needs just one for a particular set. Then there are output valves such as KT61 and EL33, which are now expensive even for manky untested ones on the general market, and I'm happy to replace with ex-USSR 6p6c (6V6GT) with different cathode resistor, or Brimar 6CH6 or selected-on-test ex-USSR 6p14p(EL84) with adaptor to keep a radio going perfectly well, leaving it to the next owner (maybe when I'm dead) to decide whether to splash the cash, if thare are any good originals around by then!

[dave walsh]

Well fair enough but I'd like this thread to stay open because it sort of goes to the "heart of the matter" re the Forum's existence in general and [dare I say it] relative newcomers. The cost of valves now seems to be a disproportionate and well covered aspect, especially as the OP [like so many] seems to have lit the blue touch paper and retired. It's definetly a money issue for some people but why is not clear. The topic itself is well worth further discussion but on a broader horizon. Of course you may not agree. Lets hear it?

Dave W

[Radio Wrangler]

On the whole, the denizens of this forum don't believe in magic fairy dust, so we are free to make substitutions in order to get a set going. We feel sadness at the reduced originality, but don't seem to find anything wrong with the sound. If the substitution is done carefully, or by means of an adaptor, if the right bottle ever turns up, originality can be restored.

Whether anything is worth repairing is something which depends on the interests of the owner/restorer. No-one else's view is important, though they may influence the owner/restorer.

In a quote from the 1960s "If it feels good, do it!" (look that up in your Funk & Wagnall's)

David

[crackle]

If it is possible to repair and it can be used after, it is worth repairing, it's fun and sustainable.

Mike

[Sideband]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

On the whole, the denizens of this forum don't believe in magic fairy dust, so we are free to make substitutions in order to get a set going. We feel sadness at the reduced originality, but don't seem to find anything wrong with the sound. If the substitution is done carefully, or by means of an adaptor, if the right bottle ever turns up, originality can be restored.

Actually I don't really feel sadness if the substitution is done sympathetically and restores an otherwise dead set to working order. Like you say, if an adaptor is used and plugs in to the original holder, then an original can be fitted if one should ever turn up. It's well known that the 994V triode detector valve in some of the Philips Superinductance sets has been unavailable for decades. Occasionally one turns up either in another set or sometimes among others for sale on eBay...never new ones. An AC/HL is a good sub but you try finding one of those. So a triode-connected EF80 with the heater run from a DC supply rectified and smoothed from the original 4V AC supply is used as a substitute fitted into an old B4 valve base. The rectified and smoothed 4V supply gives around 6.1 volts for the EF80 heater which seems quite happy. Was this effort 'worth it'? You bet! and it was wonderful to hear the set working again.

One day a 994V may show up.......

[Tractionist]

And ..... as Lloyd 1985 alludes: what price do you place on therapeutic / recreational therapy - and, personal 'achievement' ?

Some play golf [and sustain the green fees], some go to the Caribbean and work on their tan, some buy an Arsenal [better others at present!] Season Ticket, others take up residence in the pub ......

What we all do with our time [lives!] is definitely a personal/individual issue ..... whereas price/cost/value is perhaps a rather wider matter.

I met another forum member yesterday [for the first time] and we discussed our respective philosophy's ...... which proved to be remarkably closely aligned. It seems that we both spend a considerable amount of our time a) saving sets simply for prosperity ... and others, b) acquiring stuff that we know others will want - albeit that we don't c) helping others out .... gratis if we can, and/or for the cost of our own original outlay and no more!

[Tractionist]

P.S. That's "posterity" not "prosperity" ..... fingers and Freudian slip - again!