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Old 2nd Nov 2019, 4:26 pm   #1
NormanW
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Default PYE W15 Electrical connection

I have W15 AM Westninster set to go onto a police bike (ex West Mercia Police) but the power cable has been sliced off at the Plessey 90 degree connector.

The set is non working but I am curious and wonder if anyone can tell me the connections?

The plug has 6 cables coming out and where it was butchered I can see the colours at the connector and with a multimeter traced them back to the radio side of the plug:

A- Red
B- Blue
C- Green
D- Yellow
E- White
F- Black

As the bike is Positive earth, I wonder what the other end of the cable would have looked like and connected to?

The Celestion speaker and the antenna are standard BNC connectors.

Thanks for reading...
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Old 2nd Nov 2019, 5:15 pm   #2
Martin G7MRV
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

If no one has an answer sooner, I'll look later in my conversion notes, I think I have the wiring details somewhere,
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Old 2nd Nov 2019, 5:30 pm   #3
G3VKM_Roger
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanW View Post
I have W15 AM Westninster set to go onto a police bike (ex West Mercia Police) but the power cable has been sliced off at the Plessey 90 degree connector.

The set is non working but I am curious and wonder if anyone can tell me the connections?

The plug has 6 cables coming out and where it was butchered I can see the colours at the connector and with a multimeter traced them back to the radio side of the plug:

A- Red
B- Blue
C- Green
D- Yellow
E- White
F- Black

As the bike is Positive earth, I wonder what the other end of the cable would have looked like and connected to?

The Celestion speaker and the antenna are standard BNC connectors.

Thanks for reading...
I believe that most versions of the AM Westminster used the same 8-way Plessey female connector used on the FM sets, which I have a manual for.

For positive earth, power goes to pins 1 (+) and 3 (-) with 2 & 5 linked and 4 & 7 linked.

If the m/c version of the Westminster used a different plug and socket, then the connections may be different to those above.

Hope that helps,

Roger
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Old 2nd Nov 2019, 5:32 pm   #4
NormanW
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Thanks Roger,

The motorcycle unit only has six connectors in the female plug, lettered A to F on the plug face and with the wire colours on mine as I already mentioned.

Thanks though for your response.

NW
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Old 2nd Nov 2019, 10:09 pm   #5
Martin G7MRV
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Hi Norman,

The section in Chris Loreks book PMR Conversion detailing Westminsters has the following wiring diagrams (attached)

Hopefully they are legible (you will probably have to zoom in a bit on them!), I've no scanner so these are photos taken with my phone!

Hope this helps
Martin G7MRV
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 10:40 am   #6
G6Tanuki
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

The police bike radios were semi-waterproof - AM15 M/C or FM15 M/C - and used the big screw-up aluminium-shelled Plessey connectors, not the little push-on things used on the dash/boot-mount Westminsters. It's 30 years ago since I last saw one and alas I no longer have my crib-sheet.
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 10:56 am   #7
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

I seem to recall the plessey round power plug used was 6 pole, not 8. Maybe a typo from Roger??
The diagrams from Martin are for the "ordinary" dash or boot Westminster, not the motorbike. This is in line with what G6Tanuki said, referring to the small rectangular plugs with a grey mottled plastic coating over the aluminium cover.
To sum up, I imagine what Roger gives as connections looks quite likely, just the use of "7" instead of "6"
Rob
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 11:41 am   #8
Martin G7MRV
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

No mention of the motorbike sets in Chris Loreks books im afraid, I guess there were far fewer of them than the dash or boot sets.

No bike wessies ever passed across my bench at Kippax either - too early for me! Now, if it were Cleartone MB7000's...

(that said, my very last job on my bench the day I left to transfer to Emley in 2005 was a W30AM from I think Suffolk Fire)

Were the bike sets a custom build, or just an additional casing around the normal chassis/case? It might be possible to derive the connections from inside?
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 5:09 pm   #9
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Back in 1968 I worked on tx test of a home office order for 250 of them on "P" band, 79-101MHz.
The chassis was a different machining but most modules were the same. The pa and modulator were same physical size as the ordinary AM set, but were for a minimum 10W rf o/p against the usual 5W.
After completing tx and rx test the pcbs were all covered in an araldite that remained slightly flexible. This was to stop vibration problems.
The chap who did this had a jar filled with it and paintbrush to apply it. The messiest job in the factory (Cambridge Works, Haig rd) but he was happy! I think his name was Tony.
There was an amateur G8CDJ who came to the factory to learn about them as he worked for the home office. Still friends to this day and usually meet at 2 or 3 localish rallies as he lives in Norfolk.
Rob
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 5:47 pm   #10
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin G7MRV View Post
No mention of the motorbike sets in Chris Loreks books im afraid, I guess there were far fewer of them than the dash or boot sets.

No bike wessies ever passed across my bench at Kippax either - too early for me! Now, if it were Cleartone MB7000's...

(that said, my very last job on my bench the day I left to transfer to Emley in 2005 was a W30AM from I think Suffolk Fire)

Were the bike sets a custom build, or just an additional casing around the normal chassis/case? It might be possible to derive the connections from inside?

There were indeed fewer than the car sets, but still very larhe numbers made, into the thousands. Met police had 350 on Triumphs alone.

I was M2XH and used to go to the Kippax Gordon street outpost regularly with car and bike radios, but after the time of the Wesminsters.

A lot were made for the military in green (mainly AM), also in yellow and blue and fitted to the AA and RAC patrol motorcycles.
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 5:49 pm   #11
NormanW
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by robinshack View Post
I seem to recall the plessey round power plug used was 6 pole, not 8. Maybe a typo from Roger??
The diagrams from Martin are for the "ordinary" dash or boot Westminster, not the motorbike. This is in line with what G6Tanuki said, referring to the small rectangular plugs with a grey mottled plastic coating over the aluminium cover.
To sum up, I imagine what Roger gives as connections looks quite likely, just the use of "7" instead of "6"
Rob
Correct Rob, the fitting is a circular 6 pin, marked on the Plessey plug as A to F
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 5:54 pm   #12
NormanW
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by G3VKM_Roger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanW View Post

A- Red
B- Blue
C- Green
D- Yellow
E- White
F- Black

As the bike is Positive earth, I wonder what the other end of the cable would have looked like and connected to?
I believe that most versions of the AM Westminster used the same 8-way Plessey female connector used on the FM sets, which I have a manual for.

For positive earth, power goes to pins 1 (+) and 3 (-) with 2 & 5 linked and 4 & 7 linked.

If the m/c version of the Westminster used a different plug and socket, then the connections may be different to those above.

Hope that helps,

Roger
Thanks roger. The set has a circular six pin male which goes to the Plessey six pin female marked A to F, so its not the same i think.
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 5:59 pm   #13
Martin G7MRV
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

The whole sites gone now, replaced with a housing estate. I was probably the last person to use M2RX on air - testing with the local HMPs. My work was mostly Kenwoods, Cleartone, and the RNLI pagers, but I would pick up any obscure/obsolete stuff that came in!

I guess the vast majority of them ended up scrapped or in landfill.
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 6:28 pm   #14
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanW View Post
Thanks Roger,

The motorcycle unit only has six connectors in the female plug, lettered A to F on the plug face and with the wire colours on mine as I already mentioned.

Thanks though for your response.

NW
Hi Norman,

I feared that might be the case, that the sealed construction of the M/C model would need waterproof connectors. I owned a M/C FM version many years ago but never had any info on it other than the similarity to the dash and boot mount versions inside.

If you have the info on the basic W15AM you should be able to trace back the connections from the power socket to the boards inside. One thought, didn't the M/C model have a PA speaker? Possibly they may have used spare lines in the power lead for the Tannoy speaker?

Good luck with the project,

Roger
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 8:29 pm   #15
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Roger. The Horn speaker connected into the control box, like speakers do on an ordinary remote mounts. Whether it was the Plessey connector shown on the control box in post #10??
I sold a pair I had just over a year ago.
Rob
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 8:50 pm   #16
NormanW
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Quote:
Originally Posted by G3VKM_Roger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanW View Post
Thanks Roger,

The motorcycle unit only has six connectors in the female plug, lettered A to F on the plug face and with the wire colours on mine as I already mentioned.

Thanks though for your response.

NW
Hi Norman,

I feared that might be the case, that the sealed construction of the M/C model would need waterproof connectors. I owned a M/C FM version many years ago but never had any info on it other than the similarity to the dash and boot mount versions inside.

If you have the info on the basic W15AM you should be able to trace back the connections from the power socket to the boards inside. One thought, didn't the M/C model have a PA speaker? Possibly they may have used spare lines in the power lead for the Tannoy speaker?

Good luck with the project,

Roger
The had a white Celestion speaker, handlebar mounted, and connected to the left BNC on the bade unit. Ive taken the unit off the bike so can open it for a look, although my experience is outside the control box rather than inside!

I'm trying to recreate a full wiring diagram for the bike, as none seem to exist, so in the interests of historical accuracy I really should chase down the answer!
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 11:16 pm   #17
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Norman,

I may be wrong but I suspect that connector was the DC feed to the radio, and usually had a heavy 2-core wire to the battery via an in-line fuse holder. Maybe the connector fitted isn't the original? Or maybe it goes to a +ve / -ve earth interface of some sort if YK used these sets on bikes with opposite chassis polarities?

A quick look inside the set will confirm either it is, or my memory has altered somewhat in the 45 years since I installed W15AMC sets onto WMP's Norton Commandos!

Martin
G4NCE
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Old 3rd Nov 2019, 11:32 pm   #18
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Default Re: PYE W15 Electrical connection

Hi Norman,
Many years since I last worked on one of the Westminster M/C sets - vivid memories of trying to work round that dreadful conformal coating that Robin mentioned.
The power connections for +ve earth are:
A +ve
B link to D
C +ve
D link to B
E -ve
F no connection

The full details (for the FM sets) are on the 19 Set Archive site and that also includes circuits etc for the W15FM RG which was the MOD designation for the M/C set (which was also used in helicopters)

Hope this helps

cheers
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 2:30 pm   #19
NormanW
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Hi Norman,
Many years since I last worked on one of the Westminster M/C sets - vivid memories of trying to work round that dreadful conformal coating that Robin mentioned.
The power connections for +ve earth are:
A +ve
B link to D
C +ve
D link to B
E -ve
F no connection

The full details (for the FM sets) are on the 19 Set Archive site and that also includes circuits etc for the W15FM RG which was the MOD designation for the M/C set (which was also used in helicopters)

Hope this helps

cheers

Thank you very much Peter for the information. I have found the 19 SET and will have a look. Thanks for making the link.

Norman
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 2:35 pm   #20
NormanW
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Originally Posted by Sparky67 View Post
Norman,

I may be wrong but I suspect that connector was the DC feed to the radio, and usually had a heavy 2-core wire to the battery via an in-line fuse holder. Maybe the connector fitted isn't the original? Or maybe it goes to a +ve / -ve earth interface of some sort if YK used these sets on bikes with opposite chassis polarities?

A quick look inside the set will confirm either it is, or my memory has altered somewhat in the 45 years since I installed W15AMC sets onto WMP's Norton Commandos!

Martin
G4NCE
Thanks Martin - I've sent you a PM.

Norman
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