4 Track Reel to Reel- Playing Tapes Recorded on Another Machine

[mr_yogi]

Hi,
I don't know much about Reel to Reel recorders, so I'm looking for some help to select a suitable model to purchase.

My Father used to have a Philips reel to reel 4 track recorder back when I was a kid and made loads of recordings. About 20 or so years ago it went wrong and my Mum took it to be repaired and forgot about it. Years later the shop had closed down, and my Dad could no longer play his tapes.

After years of moaning about it he's now decided he wants to replace the recorder.

The Model was a Philips N4307, but as most of these I see are sold as spares or repairs, I was wondering if other more common brands and models, such as the TEAC 2340's, Revox models, etc. would be able to playback the 4 track recordings made on the old Philips?

As I understand it, it was a mono recorder which could record 4 separate tracks on the same tape, but only one at a time. From reading the manual I think it could playback up to 2 of these tracks at once. However it could only playback 2 combinations of tracks simultaneously, and all the tracks are recorded on the same side of the tape. Tape speed was 3.75 IPS.

Does anyone know about these machines and whether there are other recorders which can playback the tapes?

Cheers

[Michael Maurice]

One of the things that I've found is that Japanese recorders do not give you individual track selection, which you'll need, but European ones do. ie Philips, Grundig, Revox, Uher etc.

This is a problem if you are trying to play one track at a time on a stereo machine.

The reason why so many Philips machine are sold for spares/repairs is that the rubber parts decompose and turn to goo.

You could try a Grundig, Revoxes are very expensive

[mr_yogi]

Thanks for the reply,

Do you have any ideas if the Grundig or Revox could playback the Philips tapes? Or possible models? Is it just a matter of them bing 4 track machines, and matching the tape speed, along with the ability to select the playback track?

[Martin Bush]

My dad has what I think is the same machine you refer to (the Phillips). He had his repaired not too long ago.

This one plays tracks 1-4 together and 3-2 or all in parallel. So while it is "four track" it's not a multi-track where you can record on or play back individual (ie single) tracks.

Happy to be corrected.

[arjoll]

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

One of the things that I've found is that Japanese recorders do not give you individual track selection

The Akai 4000DB does, so presumably the rest of the 4000 series would as well.

[TIMTAPE]

Originally Posted by mr_yogi

Hi,
... I was wondering if other more common brands and models, such as the TEAC 2340's, Revox models, etc. would be able to playback the 4 track recordings made on the old Philips?

Yes a number of Teac machines would be suitable and would generally be easier to repair and maintain. The later X-3 could be worth looking at.

3.75ips was probably the most common amateur tape speed and 4 tracks the most common format from roughly 1960 so that's well and truly in your favour.

Most would not have built in amps and speakers or track select switching but that could be got around. If you were intending to make a digital copy you would normally copy tracks 1 and 3 in one pass, flip the tape over and capture tracks 4 and 2 also in one pass. Then sort each track into its own file digitally and edit as needed.

Of course all reel tape machines are old now and will often need work to bring them up to a useable standard, and spare parts arent nearly as available as they once were.

[paulsherwin]

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

One of the things that I've found is that Japanese recorders do not give you individual track selection, which you'll need, but European ones do. ie Philips, Grundig, Revox, Uher etc.

This is a problem if you are trying to play one track at a time on a stereo machine.

While this may well be true in some cases, it's rather a sweeping statement. My Sony allows either track to be played in mono through both channels, and I don't think that's unusual with Japanese domestic stereo recorders of the 70s.

It's certainly something to check when buying though.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

There was a Philips N4510 being offered last week, if it's not gone. The thread isn't closed. The HiFi Engine entry suggests it's a stereo/mono machine so might be suitable, if someone can repair the switching circuit for you.

I'm sure someone here will either have a deck you can buy, or will be able to check a tape for you in case you want confirmation that a certain model will work before seeking one out. I've got three cassette or reel to reel decks working now, so can say that if you're handy and conscientious repair will likely be possible yourself, especially if it's just a case of replacing gooey wheels or belts. However, if spares aren't available, the cost of re-covering the wheels will mount up as the man most recommend is in the US. I don't know of similar services here.

[Welsh Anorak]

As you know the speed they were recorded on that helps a great deal - 3.75 was the most common domestic speed so virtually all domestic decks could handle this. The main point is the size of the reels - if you go for a Grundig bear in mind the TK141/4/6, though good single-speed machines, are limited to 5.75" spools as are ones using the BSR TD2 deck. 7" machine such as the Philips would be needed if the recordings are on that size spool.
Another make worth considering is Tandberg as their decks were pretty good. Philips machines, as Michael says, were cursed with belts that decompose. While not a particularly difficult repair in theory, in practice it's incredibly messy and probably not something you'd want to get involved with.
I think a Revox would be overkill for the job. They're excellent machines, but would show up the deficiencies of the source tape and a good one will drain your bank account - as, to be honest, would a bad one!

[garry71]

One solution would be to play the tapes both sides and make digital recordings which could then be easily edited to seperate the tracks and reverse any that need reversing.

[garry71]

Originally Posted by arjoll

The Akai 4000DB does, so presumably the rest of the 4000 series would as well.

The 4000D does as well, albeit shuffled over to the left playback channel. Wish they'd done it proper centre mono.

[Welsh Anorak]

I assume from the OP that his father wants to replace the machine as opposed to digitising the recordings - and who can blame him?

[Michael Maurice]

Originally Posted by garry71

The 4000D does as well, albeit shuffled over to the left playback channel. Wish they'd done it proper centre mono.

I had a 4000DS and if you switched to tracks 1-4 it came out in stereo, if you switched to 3-2, it came out in reverse stereo. It didn't come out mono in both channels.

[GeoffB17]

This may not be THAT important, but the OP mentioned the TEAC A2340 in his original post, and as far as I understand it this machine would fit the requirements. This series are all 4 Channel machines, and using the various controls would allow the playback of any combination of the tracks, and 1, 2, 3 or all 4 of them at the same time. So if the tape has 4 tracks of mono, then each track could be set to Play, and the others off (or volumes turned to zero). More importantly, the 2340 uses the 3.75 and 7.5 speeds while the bigger variants (3340 for example) use 7.5 and 15 and the 10" spools.

So I'm not sure why the mention of the TEAC seemed to be dismissed so readily?

Geoff

[ben]

There would be no reason to pay out for a 4 channel TEAC because the OP's N4307 is 4 track mono, in which only two tracks can be accessed at a time.

I always recommend the Tandberg Series 15 (in this case, ensure model is 15-41). This fits the bill because:
-4 track mono
-7" spool size
-Good sound quality, bordering on Hi-fi territory but at a reasonable price
-Inbuilt amp with proper bass/treble, so ready to use 'as is'.
-Plenty about - every school on the planet seemed to have several back in the 70s/80s
-Usually just need a new O ring belt, some switch cleaner and some regreasing.
-Uses easily available connectors such as RCA/Phono and jack so simple to connect to other equipment (no fiddling with obscure DIN leads, adaptors, etc)
-Not bulky, compact design.
-Heads seem to last forever.
-Generally inexpensive to buy.

....and the most important thing - no damn black Philips goo in sight!

[mr_yogi]

Just want to say, thanks for all the advice. This is just what I was looking for, a better understanding and a list of models I could keep an eye out for.

Just one more question, do all/ most of these models mentioned have standard RCA outputs? The Philips had a built in amp and speaker. While not having inbuilt amplifications isn't an issue, it's probably preferable, it's easy to source an amp and a pair of speakers. I just want to check none have odd DIN connectors or other obscure methods of connecting to an external amp if they don't have inboard amp and speakers.

[paulsherwin]

DIN sockets were very common on European recorders in the 60s, and while they're pretty uncommon now, you can still easily buy adaptors or make up your own. You certainly shouldn't base your purchasing decisions on whether a recorder uses DIN sockets or not.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

Paul's right. If it's a deal-breaker, I'd be happy to make up DIN adaptors if you are desperate. I've been doing a lot for my Uhers to all sorts of inputs and outputs so am feeling quite adept!