Dealers on this forum

[Radio_Dave]

I know we have members who are dealers (some of which are more obvious than others) and I appreciated they can play an important part in our hobby. I've brought things from them and I've sold things to them. However, every now and then I notice something selling expensively on Ebay that's been sold cheaply on this forum and I find this very distasteful.

This creates a dilemma to which I doubt there is a solution, but it would be interesting to hear other members thoughts and opinions. If nothing else I hope this thread will raise awareness, to all forum members.

Regards
David

[whyperion]

Are items being offered cheaply on here because the offerer does not have an internet auction account, rather than providing cheaper items to forum members.

Surpluses on sales elsewhere can help to fund other restorations.

Anything I sell on here (mostly skip finds, usefuls that are not as useful to me as I thought), as it is a fixed price, I am happy with the price I get and it is totally up to the next person to do whatever they wish with it. Any cheap items I buy are to help get stuff I wish to keep fixed and working nicely at an affordable price. Obviously completed item prices on internet auction sites are a useful guide in setting prices in the for sale section.

[Paul Stenning]

We do take a dim view of people whose only use of the forum is to trade and make money, rather than being genuinely interested in collecting and restoring etc. We have banned a number of members who appeared to be only here to trade and will continue to do so.

Certainly the idea that people are buying items cheaply here and selling them on at a profit elsewhere goes completely against what this forum is all about. We cannot keep an eye on eBay accounts and other means of buying and selling though, so we probably don't know when it is happening.

If you are aware of forum members doing this regularly and can provide some proof (such as a few eBay item numbers of the same seller which clearly match items sold here) then we will certainly look into it and the dealer is likely to find himself no longer welcome here. Just PM me or one of the mods.

On the other hand we also realise that a certain amount of buying and selling is a natural part of the hobby, and that is to be encouraged. It is the blatant profiteering that we don't like.

[whyperion]

To a certain extent I would need dealers to buy some of my stuff as there is not a long queue of persons looking for my skip finds etc, maybe others do too. I cannot get out to show events, the petrol is too expensive these days and I really have to keep my hand in my pocket when looking round my local boot fairs. It's far too easy to over acquire things I won't be able to restore properly while looking for the oddments I could do with, which never seem to be on display in a sound condition at an affordable price.

Perhaps we should have a closed bid where the posts are displayed after the cut off time.

[Paul Stenning]

No, this is not an auction site. It is for collectors to buy and sell a few items from/to other collectors, and the fixed price rule is remaining. Anything else will cause too many complications and problems.

If someone is after the best possible price or wants offers or bids then they should sell elsewhere (eBay, BVWS or Radiophile auction, or whatever).

[Oldtestgear]

I cannot afford my hobby without regularly selling (or trading if possible) items that are not wanted any more or are part of a larger lot I bought to get the items I really wanted. I know that I am not the only person on the forum who is "financially challenged" and selling on the forum - to fellow enthusiasts - is much less bother than ebay.

It is very difficult to know who is a trader or just skint but the important distinction is that if I sell something on the forum I am selling at the price I am happy with. If a dealer buys an item from me and then sells it for a profit then that is their good luck. I got the price I wanted and they are welcome to do whatever they want with it.

The only way to stop this happening is to ban all "sales or Wanted" posts which would be a shame. I hope that this is not the way this will be sttled.

Just my 2p worth.

Phil

[Darren-UK]

Originally Posted by Oldtestgear

ban all "sales or Wanted"

That will not happen. If it did, the masses would suffer as a result of the annoyances caused by a minority and the alternatives to our Offered/Wanted sections would be ridiculously impractical.

To give an example, say somebody wanted a knob for a DAC90 or whatever but couldn't ask in the forum, what would be the alternative? PM every forum member? Everyone open an eBay account and reply upon that source? Banning Sales and Wants would also effectively render the FCS redundant.

So don't worry, S&PO/W won't be going anywhere.

[AC/HL]

I think that when we dispose of an item it's an end in itself. We had it and sold or gave it willingly. The receiver then has it and it's then up to them to keep, restore, modify, cannibalise, scrap or sell as they wish.
I do think, though, that it would be a good thing if it was more transparent. If you have a sideline, fair enough, it all helps to oil the wheels.
A mere "PM sent", in the open Forum, or worse still, sent in the background but not posted in open forum, somehow suggests secretive intentions.
An open offer should surely be openly responded to. PM's are for sensitive details in this context.

[Sean Williams]

Why not just ask that "traders" mention the fact that they are so?

There are several members on here (Me included) that often have stalls at various radio shows throughout the year, am I a trader? technically yes - I do buy stuff and sell it on from time to time, if I didn't the pile of stuff I have here would be unmanageable. Do I sell stuff to make a living? er no, I would have starved years ago - my selling activities go some way to subsidising my hobby.

There needs to be a clean line between Traders - ones that sell as a business, and a regular means of income, and hobbyists that like to trade to fund their hobby.

Any further moderation would make any sales and wanted section impossible to use.

Cheers
Sean

[Peter.N.]

I would certainly frown on anyone just using the forum for profit, if I have something that is likely to be worth a substantial ammount I sell it on ebay, anything else of interest I generally offer FOC just for postage cost on the forum. As mentioned the forum is here to assist people with their hobby and provide information of interest not as a means of making money. Having said that it may be that something bought on here and no longer required could be sold elswhere but it obviously shouldn't be a regular occurance.

Peter

[David Simpson]

Folks, I dont know how difficult it would be for the Moderators, but perhaps the brief profile beneath each person's name on a post - should state if a person is a regular internet dealer. As well as eBay, there is Gumtree and one or two other sites.

Personally, I'd be really upset to discover that something I'd sold cheaply, or given, to a fellow Forum member, ended up being flogged profitably on eBay. Those who know me are aware that I've sold at what they cost me originally, or sold at a nominal price - with the dosh being for collection fuel costs, packaging, etc. Monies made have also gone to charities, and heaps of items just given away to radio clubs and individuals.

Here speaks a guy who has filled (seats down) the spacious boot of my old Freelander, several times in the last two years with heaps and heaps of mainly decent working test equipment. Most destined for the skip, had I not rescued it. Had I been mercenary, and had the time and patience for packaging, couriering, etc (I don't have the inclination nor the time and patience) - I reckon I could've made a couple of grand.

After joining the Forum I was really grateful to those guys who encouraged me and either sold stuff to me cheaply, or actually gave me items for free. This I think is the whole ethos of the Forum. I also think its very sad when folk take advantage of such kindness.

Regards,
David

[HamishBoxer]

Totally agree, David, with your comments and have here a very nice Farnell power that came from you at a very low price.

David

[robjkmannering]

Hi,
I regularly sell on Ebay but only twice have I bought items here and they are to complete projects that DO NOT END UP at auction!
On the other side, I have given away items on here free and if someone wants to sell them on, good luck to them. I either didn't consider the item worth selling or could not be bothered.
Out of conscience, I would not do it to others but after I have passed an item to someone else, it becomes theirs to do with what they will.
I have a Repranco DDR2 coil given to me by a member, I no longer use it (at the moment) but would never sell it as it would be wrong. However, if someone else wanted it, I would pass it on as it was to me. I would not then have a clue as to what happened to it!
Rob

Rob

[David Simpson]

This is a very thorny question indeed. If its too complicated for Moderators to make it mandatory for folk to declare their profitable trading interests, then perhaps a voluntary code could be implemented.

Many Forum members seem to be getting close to retirement age, if not already retired and thankfully there are a few very keen younger guys within the fold. The country's economy is shot to pieces so state and private pension incomes, and savings, are going to be stretched for us and many folk with other keen pursuits. Therefore a "help and be helped" attitude should be encouraged within the Forum. Mercenary profiteering should be strongly discouraged.

Postage/courier costs aside, I'm not against folk asking a few quid to cover the costs of collection, spares, and time spent on repairs/renovation, etc. But the key word is "Vintage". Without us, all these lovely old radios, TV's, scopes, record players, etc would now be in landfill. Please, let's think more about continuing the life of vintage equipment, and a bit less about how much it can make on the internet.

Regards,
David

[Paul Stenning]

We have already stated our position and we certainly don't need anything that will generate more work for the mod team.

This forum's offered and wanted section is for helping members carry out transactions that are not profiteering. Anyone who obtains stuff from members here with the intention of selling it straight on at a profit is not welcome and will be banned, regardless of the reason/excuse.

If members are doing that now I would strongly advise them to STOP.

[Paul Stenning]

Only two months later we have become aware of more incidents of this.

Clearly those involved think it doesn't matter or they can get away with it.

WRONG!

Those continuing this practice can expect to be banned sooner or later.