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Other Vintage Household Electrical or Electromechanical Items For discussions about other vintage (over 25 years old) electrical and electromechanical household items. See the sticky thread for details.

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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 4:53 pm   #41
paulsherwin
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

Advice about these things tends to be directed at the lowest common denominator, because some people have no grasp of electrical concepts and will do the most idiotic things. It's safer to say "don't use adaptors" or "don't daisy chain multiways" rather than trying to explain the issues involved (which will be a waste of effort for the truly clueless anyway).

It's also necessary for people giving advice to cover themselves in case some twit manages to burn a house down and sues.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 4:56 pm   #42
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

I understand. I suppose this is a public forum, and granted you do need to tailor advice to the individual which theoretically could be anybody in this context
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 4:57 pm   #43
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

The Olson multiway distribution units referred to in previous posts are of excellent quality but rather expensive for home use.
It worth browsing ebay for decent second hand units, they don't wear out in say a data centre. Unlike cheap domestic multiways, the Olson units can be taken apart to inspect the insides and also to fit a supply flex of the correct length for the application.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 5:24 pm   #44
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

I also though wonder if this advice has been adopted as general advice from other countries (e.g. the USA) where there is no fusing of plugs. I'm fairly sure that the first time I heard this advice it was in one of those terrible 8mm "educational" films we were forced to watch at school and featured Donald Duck plugging in loads of adapters until a Disneyfied fire ensued. And even at that tender age I thought, "but what about the fuses?".

As Broadgage said, any adaptor/lead/block not fit for this purpose isn't fit for any purpose involving supplying appliances.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 5:46 pm   #45
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

I certainly remember public information films from the 60s and 70s showing trees of nested adaptors with accompanying dire warnings. To be fair, lots of households still had BS546 or even BS73 installations then, sometimes with only one socket in the room, and people would indeed plug 3kW electric fires, televisions, radiograms, irons etc all in the one socket using several adaptors. Combine that with incompetently wired plugs, manky old wiring and nails used instead of fusewire in the consumer unit and you do indeed have a significant fire danger.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 8:06 pm   #46
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

I make my own mains cables, and everything is wired properly, with appropriate fuse.

I wired up my current mains extensions, all properly wired, and earthed.

I am still a little cautious about daisy chaining. What I do have is a 3 way socket cube, and that will give me the extra sockets needed. Would this be a better substitute plugged in to the mains extension, instead of daisy chaining ? Or will this cause its own problems ?
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 8:13 pm   #47
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

There is no real problem with daisy chaining if all the appliances are low current and the cable lengths are fairly short. If you are really concerned with safety issues, fit 3A fuses in all the plugs and multiways, and fit RCD adaptors where one multiway is daisy chained from another. This is being a bit paranoid though.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 8:13 pm   #48
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

I don't see there would be any difference if the cube was fused (if its not throw it away), other than it being unwieldy in the socket and the potential for movement to pull it out.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 8:17 pm   #49
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

The presently-available 2-way blocks I have seen have all been unfused, and the 3-way blocks fused.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 8:40 pm   #50
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

The multi way cube I have is an older bakelite with fuse capacity up to 13amps. Its in perfectly usable condition.

I think I will try that. It will take up less room than an extra extension.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 8:41 pm   #51
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

Weren't the cube type prohibited? I remember this being to prevent "stacking", but I think that it was primarily a matter of mechanical stress (a christmas tree sticking out of the wall horizontally) rather than electrical overloading.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 8:44 pm   #52
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

Do you mean adaptors? I think they're still available new - they certainly were until quite recently. All the ones made since the 70s (and most before) have a BS1362 fuse.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 9:09 pm   #53
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

2-ways can be unfused; 3-ways must now be fused, but that hasn't always been the case.
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 9:32 pm   #54
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

The cube I have is a Bakelite fused Nettle 3 way adapter. Made in the Uk. Surprisingly heavy, and in perfect condition.

Not sure year of manufacturer, but I have noticed it does not have the protective black tape around the live and neutral pins, so an older design . . . .

Still perfectly usable though . . . .
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Old 23rd Apr 2018, 9:42 pm   #55
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

You're quite right Paul according to the internets, I must be imagining things again.
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Old 24th Apr 2018, 3:34 pm   #56
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

I've worked in places where the use of block adapters is banned by company policy.
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Old 25th Apr 2018, 11:11 am   #57
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
I've worked in places where the use of block adapters is banned by company policy.
Where I worked, cheap plastic mains extension 4 way blocks were banned, although we were allowed to use the more expensive high quality metal cased units that can be bought. With daisy chaining, the issue was not power handling, because the primary unit was fused anyway, but line resistance / impedance. You don't have to go too far before failing earth resistance tests. A trailing socket with an extended moderatly long lead can come close. It is also well likely that cheap extensions will not be happy at the limits of line capacity.

It was always a bit of a problem in client's homes, at least at one period, as I was often required to install quite a bit of computer / control equipment. The rules were not to daisy chain mains leads, but with often (especially) elderly clients I regularly determined that it was safer to daisy chain than run multiple cables across a living room. I had quite a few arguments with the boss about that, but, in my experience, mechanical accidents are much more likely, and the pat test was always passed.

Although they are a slightly different issue, we had more than one supplier who had to de-rate their remotely controlled switched mains sockets and provide replacement lower current fuses as the sockets were being overloaded when a client used them with things like electric fires. We had a drawer full of 10A fuses purely for this purpose.
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Old 25th Apr 2018, 2:22 pm   #58
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

Whenever this question comes up, I reach for one of these:

http://martindale-electric.co.uk/mar...tor-p-285.html

I carry one in my toolkit wherever I go. They're not the cheapest things to buy, but in any debate you need objective facts. Obviously, there are more expensive options if you want a figure rather than a range, but this has been good enough for me over the years
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Old 25th Apr 2018, 3:52 pm   #59
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

Decades ago there was a TV comedy program where the hapless bloke plugged 4 or 5 square adapters into each other, it got a big laugh. A few days later a consumer program (Ester Rantzen I think) told you not to do it & how dangerous it was. I can't remember any power strips back then..
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Old 25th Apr 2018, 6:33 pm   #60
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Default Re: Daisy Chain Mains Extensions

I have a couple of mains extensions that have either 3A or 5A fuses, it's good from a safety point of view esp. if the devices that are to be plugged into it only amount to a couple of hundred watts.
These extensions are either plugged into a decent LIDL extension lead (a more industrial plastic one, or the rack-mound PDU that powers my synthesizers that has it's own 10A breaker anyway.

I do have one fused block in use that does have an extension running off it but the only other device is the power supply/ADSL modem for the wireless router.
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