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Old 4th Mar 2018, 5:12 pm   #1
Nightcruiser
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Default Is it worth repairing?

A question cropped up during a discussion yesterday from other ordinary general collectors such as myself as to whether many old sets now are really worth restoring and saving. After all, valves are no longer easily obtainable at a fair price and some components are getting near impossible to find. If we want a replacement valve from a website we are generally screwed over so isn’t it best just to move on these days?

I hate to say it, but really a lot of collectors are being forced away from the hobby they enjoy.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 5:28 pm   #2
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

I disagree when you say "valves are no longer easily obtainable at a fair price", the exception being the ones which fall into the 'audiophool' category. Ordinary common valves are generally available at sensible prices IMHO.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 5:32 pm   #3
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

That depends Andy on where they are obtained from and who you know doesn’t it?
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 5:34 pm   #4
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcruiser View Post
I hate to say it, but really a lot of collectors are being forced away from the hobby they enjoy.
Really?

I don't recognise this problem at all. Its true that some valves attract silly prices like the PX4 but generally there is not a problem. Sourcing general parts like capacitors and resistors is straight forward and obtaining cosmetic parts and electronic parts unique to a model can be more challenging but that's part of the fun.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 5:40 pm   #5
Graham G3ZVT
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

Of course there will be corners in our hobby where you may need deep pockets (or a lot of luck) to succeed, but we are far from the point where you can generalise and regard the whole valve radio restoration hobby as an expensive pastime.

Surely, this forum is a testament to that.

Good luck with the MH4 search.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 5:41 pm   #6
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

Even if they can't be restored to full working order right now they can be saved from the skip and cleaned up.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 5:42 pm   #7
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

Nobody gets rich fixing old radios. We do it because we enjoy it, not to turn a profit. Working around component shortages is part of the fun.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 5:52 pm   #8
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

That is precisely my point Paul.

The radios often do not sell for a fraction of the price it takes to restore them properly and yet a recap and a set of valves now can set us back at least five times the resale value. Yes, there is the fun aspect of our hobby, nobody is denying that, but the fun is wearing rather thin when in order to obtain half usable parts the prices now are often as high as the market will stretch and on certain websites, twenty pounds postage on top for a valve? C’mon...that excuse just doesn’t wash.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 6:08 pm   #9
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

I agree with Paul - Nightcruiser's theory could be attached to many threads associated with 'collecting and restoration' e.g. vintage clocks, wrist watches, cars .......

The principal pleasure is surely that of saving something for posterity; getting it operational again; the technical and intellectual challenge etc. etc.

Other issues are: what value do you put upon your time, patience, expertise, space, and accumulated test-gear?

Nobody I know does this for financial reward or profit .....
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 6:20 pm   #10
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

I think it's only "who you know" in the very broadest sense Nightcruiser, not an "insider" cabal. I notice that Forum members often offer items, like valves, at a very fair price but then... often no price You are right that individual parts might superceede the overall value of a radio but that's just one aspect of the enthusiasm, possibly driven by the "retro" boom. Generally most people don't want to strip out equipment just to increase value [assett stripping] it's not a part of the ethos or why we're here really I'm not religious but I suppose you can either be a money changer or a good samaritan in New Testament terms

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Old 4th Mar 2018, 6:22 pm   #11
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

Perhaps the question ought to be what value are other people putting on your hobby?
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 6:37 pm   #12
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

You've started a very philosophical and [I'm sure unintentionally] provocative debate Nightcruiser!

We can all submit our own motives and motivation - but what are yours?

There are silly prices quoted for many items [not just radio components] on various auction sites - but most people on this forum simply won't 'buy-in'. My experience [with forum members] has been that of great generosity .... in terms of time, patience, hospitality, and .............. components.

From a personal perspective: I have never sold a radio, and I have never 'broken' one too [altho' that's occasionally why I have acquired a few ... but I can never bring myself to do it!] ..... but I have temporarily 'borrowed' parts from them!

Latterly, I've noted that many formerly 'rare' sets [e.g. 444's and Theaterettes] have not only 'appeared' .... but are becoming much cheaper. Conversely - circular Ekco's [which were never rare/always around] have become increasingly expensive .....

Some of my own sets are very rare ........... and probably worthless - to others, but not to me!!
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 6:47 pm   #13
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

I don't think anyone is going to get rich repairing vintage radios.

But a hobby does not make financial sense. It's something you do because you enjoy it. And I enjoy repairing vintage electronics (in my case tape recorders and computers mostly, but also radios).

It was pointed out to me years ago that many people will pay for a couple of hours pleasure by buying a cinema ticket, or going to a football match. Those are not for me. I buy an old radio, then spend more money on parts _BUT_ then I get many hours of pleasure repairing it (and from the final result, although for me it's the repairing that's the most fun). I don't see a problem with doing this.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 6:49 pm   #14
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

Some people buy the latest smartphone for coming on to £1000 and simply touch the screen repeatedly, that's their hobby. Mine (well one of them) is having all the gear to fix and make things and doing so.

Fix a proper old valve radio for say £30 and you have a very good radio. To buy one new of the same quality would be much more than that.
 
Old 4th Mar 2018, 7:00 pm   #15
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing?

The "is it worth repairing?" question can only be answered by asking how deep the person-requesting-the-repairs pockets are.

If you're 'repairing' on a professional basis then if you're charging less than £40 an hour you're a total loser [this assumes you're doing it on a commercial basis, paying Employers/Employees National-insurance, auto-enrollment pension, rent, business-rates, public-liability insurance etc for the space you're working] - charging £40 an hour won't pay you minimum-wage after these deductions.

Treat it as a hobby and don't expect to get rich from it - that's a different matter. Sure, take on projects that you find 'interesting' - they'll occupy you in retirement and the mental stimulation will help stave off Alzheimer's dementia - but equally you need to identify the no-hope-of-sensible-fix-within-what-the-customer-will-pay-for tat , shrug, and happily tell them "No, dump it in a skip and buy a new one for £45.99 at Argos".
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 7:03 pm   #16
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcruiser View Post
If we want a replacement valve from a website we are generally screwed over so isn’t it best just to move on these days?...
I can't agree with the "generally", it's never been easy making any sort of living from vintage radio: many have tried and failed, I'd be surprised if anyone's grown rich.

Question is, what are you thinking of moving on to? There's little or no money to be made from restoration as a hobby, but, depending on the type of equipment youi're minded to acquire and spend your time with, it can be a very expensive hobby or, even now, a very cheap one - the choice is yours. If, all things considered, you would rather "move on" to spending your hours some other way, that's your choice again. As it is for all of us...

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Old 4th Mar 2018, 7:20 pm   #17
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcruiser View Post
Perhaps the question ought to be what value are other people putting on your hobby?
I don’t care what value other people are putting on my hobby.

I know what value I put on it.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 7:33 pm   #18
Nightcruiser
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing?

Perhaps Tractionist I have started a very philosophical and no doubt controversial discussion on here today. You asked me what my motivation is? Well I’ll tell you.

After fifty years of collecting i’ve seen a major change in the way our hobby has progressed.

I see that there are still a percentage of helpful and kindly people on here who are willing to advise others, not only with their knowledge and time, but also to encourage younger, future members of society into our realm of collecting.

Sadly, on the other side of the coin I’ve witnessed more and more selfish greed among other collectors turned ‘businessmen’ and people who are more than prepared to extort and push the market as much as they can from those wishing to start up or even continue this hobby.

In ten years time, the way things are, fewer people, not just our generation, but also the next will become less and less interested in either continuing or beginning what we do if only for financial reasons alone.

What is seen to be cool today will not necessarily be seen to be cool tomorrow, and the only people who will be able to enjoy vintage radio will be an elitist group who already own the sets and the parts to keep them alive and in working order.

That to me would be a really wicked shame. Not just for us now for for those that may care to follow in our footsteps.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 8:04 pm   #19
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing?

'Is it worth repairing/restoring can only be answered by the individual and what is considered 'reasonable' and 'worth'. To give an example, back in 2006 I was given (by Philips) a 1934 Philips Superinductance set (274A). This was from a store room that was being cleared out. Now they are not particularly rare but don't often turn up at a reasonable price or in good original condition both of which applied to this particular set.

I happily spent several weeks restuffing capacitors and cleaning up the set to keep original looks. One valve I wanted was an S4V since the original had been replaced by something else and just didn't look right. I eventually found a new one for £15, more than I would normally have wanted to pay for a valve of that type but I thought it was worth it to maintain original looks (and performance). Would I have paid that money for a valve for a bog-standard 50's set? Probably not unless the set was rare or special in some way....I'd have found a substitute or a work-around.

Similarly only last year I restored a Barker 88...I'd been after one for ages. I think the radio cost £30. It needed a new smoothing capacitor and I decided to use a new replacement since the original had been removed and a couple of single caps had been fitted under the chassis. I didn't like the hole left in the chassis so bought a replacement dual cap from a German company complete with a new clip. It cost around £15 including shipping but I thought it was worth it to make the chassis look better (no gaping hole). I've done similar things with Philips sets that use the bolt down capacitors.

I doubt any of my radio's will make a profit if I decide to sell them on but the satisfaction I had restoring them irrespective of cost.

I enjoy restoring the sets, be they radios or TV's. If I wasn't prepared to spend what I consider a reasonable amount when restoring them then there would be no point in buying them in the first place. I know that some people collect only and don't restore, preferring to have them a talking points/decoration but that is not for me.

Incidentally, where are you buying your valves/components? There are still many suppliers (not necessarily in UK) supplying parts at very reasonable prices. Most common valves can be had for a few pounds from eBay.

ANY hobby is going to cost money if you are going to pursue it properly.

You could say the same for classic cars. People spend thousands restoring a classic car simply because they think it's worth it. As to whether they make any money selling it on depends on the buyer.
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Old 4th Mar 2018, 8:28 pm   #20
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Default Re: Is it worth repairing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcruiser View Post
What is seen to be cool today will not necessarily be seen to be cool tomorrow...
For me, doing something because it's 'cool' means it's being done for social acceptance rather than being done out of love for the thing itself. Those for whom cool is the reason they were attracted probably won't have the depth of interest to sustain them in the longer term, at least in the practical side of the hobby, which dominates here.

Maybe collecting catalin radios and rare sets thought of as design icons could be considered 'cool' by those involved but that's a whole different market (with different price levels).

Steve

Last edited by Panrock; 4th Mar 2018 at 8:42 pm. Reason: Clarity
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