Speaker Cable of Yesteryear - Page 8 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

vidjoman · 13th Jun 2018, 1:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

The difficulty with bell wire was in stripping the insulation without nicking the solid conductor.

Teeth worked quite well when I was young, not anymore though.

johntech · 21st Jun 2018, 1:36 pm

A term regularly used on "Fancy"speaker cable is "Oxygen Free" so the copper is oxygen free presumably !
How can this effect sound common sense suggests there cannot be much oxygen in copper anyway!
Another rip off for the poor man in the street are HDMI cables. A friend of mine bought a new dvd player and was sold a super HDMI lead for £70 !
Take it back immediately said I. Here's one for a fiver not the cheapest but still decent quality. It's digital, so it will work or it won't no half measures.

Herald1360 · 21st Jun 2018, 10:16 pm

Maybe someone heard of copper oxide rectifiers and reckoned that rectifying any of the loudspeaker signal was a bad thing......

emeritus · 21st Jun 2018, 10:39 pm

The book "The practical handyman" (Odhams, probably published in 1938) has a section on installing points for extension speakers around the house. It recommended small nonreversible 2 pin plugs and sockets, and the recommended wire (routed under the floorboards) was lead sheathed twin rubber insulated 18 gauge wire. The possibility of using smaller lead-covered bell wire was mentioned but not recommended as, while cheaper than the 18 gauge stuff, the insulation was of poorer quality than the lighting cable.

Radio Wrangler · 22nd Jun 2018, 4:03 am

The lead sheathing would have been protection for the otherwise esculent insulation of the day.

David

dseymo1 · 22nd Jun 2018, 7:55 am

Also, in 1938 distribution was often at high voltage, each extension speaker having its own output transformer, so decent insulation was a necessity.

G8HQP Dave · 22nd Jun 2018, 9:37 am

Oxygen in copper affects conductivity, but only slightly. It can have no significant effect on a speaker cable, but it is a good example of how a real, but negligibly small, effect is turned by marketing into a significant effect in order to extract money from audiophiles. Two claims are made:
1. the effect is real - true, so difficult to challenge
2. the effect can be heard - almost certainly untrue, but difficult to challenge without lots of careful listening tests and there are lots of get-out clauses if any test shows indistinguishability

Grossly exaggerating a real effect is relatively immune from attacks by physicists and engineers, because they have to admit that the effect is real and all true audiophiles know that they can hear effects which psychoacoustic research say are many orders of magnitude below threshold so should be inaudible.

AC/HL · 22nd Jun 2018, 12:38 pm

(OT illustration warning) You can boil water in a paper bag, but a paper kettle would be a bit of a stretch. Everyday life proves that if you want to believe something, you will, despite sage advice to the contrary, even possibly because of such advice.

G8HQP Dave · 22nd Jun 2018, 1:47 pm

Yes, saying that at audio frequencies about the only thing which matters about a speaker cable is its resistance (and that does not matter too much, provided it is small enough) is dismissed as 'conventional engineering' by some people. They fail to notice that it is 'conventional engineering' which enables them to make such comments online, talk to their friends, watch films in the middle of a field (if they so wish), fly off on holiday etc.

Radio Wrangler · 22nd Jun 2018, 3:02 pm

Hmm If we had to develop aeroplanes using only audiophile principles....

It could make an hilarious comedy. I want the film rights!

David

turretslug · 22nd Jun 2018, 3:19 pm

Steady on- they're costly enough as it is....

Edward Huggins · 22nd Jun 2018, 4:12 pm

I will say that before I got a bit more fussy, and whilst I always did eschew ungainly bell wire, I do admit to going to Woolies and buying cheapo two core, clear transperent, lamp flex. Well, it did the job at the time....

Herald1360 · 23rd Jun 2018, 8:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

The lead sheathing would have been protection for the otherwise esculent insulation of the day.

David

Another recondite word to add to my lexicon for my crepuscular years.

21st Jun 2018, 1:36 pm	#142
johntech Triode Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Harrogate, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 34	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear A term regularly used on "Fancy"speaker cable is "Oxygen Free" so the copper is oxygen free presumably ! How can this effect sound common sense suggests there cannot be much oxygen in copper anyway! Another rip off for the poor man in the street are HDMI cables. A friend of mine bought a new dvd player and was sold a super HDMI lead for £70 ! Take it back immediately said I. Here's one for a fiver not the cheapest but still decent quality. It's digital, so it will work or it won't no half measures.

21st Jun 2018, 10:16 pm	#143
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear Maybe someone heard of copper oxide rectifiers and reckoned that rectifying any of the loudspeaker signal was a bad thing...... __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

21st Jun 2018, 10:39 pm	#144
emeritus Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK. Posts: 5,337	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear The book "The practical handyman" (Odhams, probably published in 1938) has a section on installing points for extension speakers around the house. It recommended small nonreversible 2 pin plugs and sockets, and the recommended wire (routed under the floorboards) was lead sheathed twin rubber insulated 18 gauge wire. The possibility of using smaller lead-covered bell wire was mentioned but not recommended as, while cheaper than the 18 gauge stuff, the insulation was of poorer quality than the lighting cable.

22nd Jun 2018, 4:03 am	#145
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,857	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear The lead sheathing would have been protection for the otherwise esculent insulation of the day. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

22nd Jun 2018, 7:55 am	#146
dseymo1 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shropshire, UK. Posts: 3,051	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear Also, in 1938 distribution was often at high voltage, each extension speaker having its own output transformer, so decent insulation was a necessity.

22nd Jun 2018, 9:37 am	#147
G8HQP Dave Rest in Peace Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 4,872	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear Oxygen in copper affects conductivity, but only slightly. It can have no significant effect on a speaker cable, but it is a good example of how a real, but negligibly small, effect is turned by marketing into a significant effect in order to extract money from audiophiles. Two claims are made: 1. the effect is real - true, so difficult to challenge 2. the effect can be heard - almost certainly untrue, but difficult to challenge without lots of careful listening tests and there are lots of get-out clauses if any test shows indistinguishability Grossly exaggerating a real effect is relatively immune from attacks by physicists and engineers, because they have to admit that the effect is real and all true audiophiles know that they can hear effects which psychoacoustic research say are many orders of magnitude below threshold so should be inaudible.

22nd Jun 2018, 12:38 pm	#148
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear (OT illustration warning) You can boil water in a paper bag, but a paper kettle would be a bit of a stretch. Everyday life proves that if you want to believe something, you will, despite sage advice to the contrary, even possibly because of such advice.

22nd Jun 2018, 1:47 pm	#149
G8HQP Dave Rest in Peace Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 4,872	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear Yes, saying that at audio frequencies about the only thing which matters about a speaker cable is its resistance (and that does not matter too much, provided it is small enough) is dismissed as 'conventional engineering' by some people. They fail to notice that it is 'conventional engineering' which enables them to make such comments online, talk to their friends, watch films in the middle of a field (if they so wish), fly off on holiday etc.

22nd Jun 2018, 3:02 pm	#150
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,857	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear Hmm If we had to develop aeroplanes using only audiophile principles.... It could make an hilarious comedy. I want the film rights! David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

22nd Jun 2018, 3:19 pm	#151
turretslug Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Surrey, UK. Posts: 4,393	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear Steady on- they're costly enough as it is....

22nd Jun 2018, 4:12 pm	#152
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,324	Re: Speaker Cable of Yesteryear I will say that before I got a bit more fussy, and whilst I always did eschew ungainly bell wire, I do admit to going to Woolies and buying cheapo two core, clear transperent, lamp flex. Well, it did the job at the time.... __________________ Edward.