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Old 10th Nov 2019, 8:18 pm   #21
John10b
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

Just as a matter of interest, I have attached a picture of the inside of a Sonotone stereo 8TA Cartridge .
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 10:09 am   #22
John10b
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

Some pictures of the Stereo Red Chinese Cartridge.
Cheers
John
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 9:52 pm   #23
Techman
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

Quote:
Originally Posted by tracypaper View Post
the metal leaf springs on the rear suspension of a vintage car.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean, a car leaf spring would be about as bad as the bit of wrought iron from a garden gate. Of course this is all a bit of an exaggeration to try to make the point.

Don't take my word for it, just lift and flex the TC8 stylus with your finger nail and then do the same with one of the other types such as in the X5M etc. I think you'll soon feel the difference, which confirms my theory that the BSR TC8S cartridge has very poor compliance and will be no different to using a mono TC8 on your stereo records, ie, it won't do them a lot of good!

It would be quite interesting to try a Vaco Luxor stylus on a TC8 (if it really will fit) to see if it would improve its compliance. I connected both channels of my TC8S to an amplifier input in turn, and on stroking the stylus I had some output from both of them, but how much is another question. I'll have to find a spare pickup head to fit it into and do some tests - might even buy a Vaco Luxor stylus to try, when and if I get round to it.

I think BSR just carried on with the dated technology from the mono only days and thought they'd get away with it to save on costs while they got round to developing a proper stereo compatible cartridge. The TC8S didn't seem to be around for very long and I seem to remember that there were serious questions about its compatibility at the time from the audio community, although I can't remember whether I read this somewhere or was told it.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 2:14 am   #24
suebutcher
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

The TC8S is a rather low compliance cartridge, no doubt about that, but its internal rubber suspension is lighter and more flexible than the mono TC8M, which can only bend sideways. That factor is more important than the springiness of the metal shank because unlike later BSR cartridges the suspension is right behind the stylus; if you can't feel much vertical movement on the TC8S, remember that the rubber can go hard with age. The original BSR stylus shanks are fairly flexible too, being made of thin bronze, but modern replacements can be very stiff. The green block of rubber on the stereo side of the TC8S is there to damp any resonance in the metal shank, and to add a bit of protection if the needle is dropped hard. Assuming everything's in order, and you don't mind using a high stylus pressure, the TC8S is cleaner sounding than the Ronette 105, but if you have to use a stereo crystal cartridge the BSR SX6M beats both of them.

(Elsewhere I've posted sketches of the BSR TC8M and TC8S internals, they are very different.)
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 8:23 am   #25
regentone001
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

So BSR and Ronette both sold cartridges and styli knowing that they would do damage to the new and very expensive stereo records that were just coming out? Somehow I don't think that would have done their reputations any good at all and they would know it.

The stylus in a stereo groove does not move vertically up and down. The walls of the groove are at 45degrees and the stylus moves 45 degrees to perpendicular
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 9:53 am   #26
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

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Originally Posted by regentone001 View Post
The stylus in a stereo groove does not move vertically up and down. The walls of the groove are at 45degrees and the stylus moves 45 degrees to perpendicular
Yes, that's generally true, but there will be some vertical movements when the waveforms of the left and right channels are momentarily out of phase. It depends on the style of the recording. I imagine multitrack pop recordings with wide stereo image separation would need more vertical compliance than a stereo classical recording made with a crossed-pair cardioid microphone such as the Neumann SM 69, which is designed to minimise the phase differences between channels. For instance, the classical label Concert Hall issued "Synchro Stereo" LPs which they claimed could be used on mono players without damage.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 11:08 am   #27
John10b
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

I have attached pictures of the two BSR cartridges, with thanks to suebutcher.
Cheers
John
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Old Yesterday, 3:17 am   #28
suebutcher
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

Ta! I'll just add that the TC8M is easy to repair because the BSR SX6M elements fit it, and these are often still OK because they're plastic sealed. The TC8S is a fiddly job, though.
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Old Yesterday, 12:00 pm   #29
Ted Kendall
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Default Re: BSR/ TC8 cartridges/stylus

Quote:
Originally Posted by regentone001 View Post
The stylus in a stereo groove does not move vertically up and down.
Actually, it does, the movement corrresponding to the difference between left and right channels and the lateral movement to the sum. So does the stylus tracing a mono groove, giving rise to pinch effect. Thus vertical compliance in a mono pickup improves tracking and reduces wear. The Tannoy Variluctance was notorious for its vertical stiffness, leading some BBC operators to weight the head with a penny on transmission to reduce distortion.
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