Daphne Oil ?

[retailer]

Has anyone heard of Daphne Oil ? I just repaired the auto return on a Kenwood KS3000 turntable for my neighbour and on downloading the manual I see it calls for Daphne Oil to lubricate certain bits of the auto return mechanism, I ask because the oil is used at a point where pivoting motion is transfered from one component to another purely it seems by the viscosity of the oil.

[joebog1]

https://www.idemitsu.com/business/lube/maintenance.html

That site has a little information.
I used to run a company that manufactured moving iron meters. These need damping or they swing about like mad. Two loops of 1.5mm diameter wire wound around a magnet.
We used 200 weight Daphne oil on the pivots to stop the oscillations.

[Nickthedentist]

I've never heard of it.

Very few Google hits for it, mainly this one, where it seems to cover a range of different products: https://www.idemitsu.com/business/lube/maintenance.html

[Radio Wrangler]

One of those DAPHNE oils is a high viscosity one intended for damping mechanisms. The others seem to be lighter as hydraulic fluids and oils for turbines (high speeds and temperatures)

The picture does quote a trio corporation part number for the intended stuff, this will be the only route to knowing which one of that brand they mean.

Otherwise, look at what's on there and take a guess at some western product.

Lubriplate is an American brand spaecialising in greases which stay where you put them and don't go walkies all over everything.

David

[Craig Sawyers]

Well Daphne are a group of plants https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/popular/daphne .

But as Nick says it is also a class of synthetic oils made by idemitsu. They seem to be lubrication oils used in air conditioners, so possibly have to cope with high pressure lubrication.

I might just go for a drop of two of motor oil.

[Refugee]

Kilopoise is the European brand name and Farnell used to sell it.
It is a tad pricy though.

[retailer]

Looking at the exploded view - the detection arm pivots on the detection arm shaft which is part of the detection operating arm, as the tone arm reaches the end of a record a projection on the underside of the tone arm pushes the detection operating arm - the arm shaft rotates and this in turn transmits motion to the detection arm - the detection arm is free to rotate on the shaft so it is only the viscosity of the oil that transmits the motion, the use of a high viscosity substance to transmit motion rather than some sort of positive mechanical setup seems like a strange way to achieve a result.

I checked out RS components - I doubt my neighbour (the owner of the turntable) will pay for a specialist viscous compound, he only wants a record player setup for his workshop - paid a total for $40 for the amp, t/table and speakers, the crowning glory of the setup was the speakers a pair of Yamaha NS10's in perfect condition

Not having any Daphne Oil available I tried some high melting point front wheel bearing grease, seems to do the job.

[paulsherwin]

I've never heard of Daphne oil either, so I suspect it's known as something else in Europe. If it's a noncritical application you can use 20/50 engine oil or gear oil for damping. I suspect automotive grease will dry out eventually. You could try Vaseline, but that might be too viscous.

[Craig Sawyers]

The alternative to kilopoise that Refugee mentioned is high viscosity silicone oil that is used by the model vehicle enthusiasts.

I found no problem in sourcing 60,000cS for the SME arm damper and 1 million cS for the arm drop. 1 million cS is very difficult to handle - it hardly flows at all!

Here you go - every viscosity you could ever need https://www.modelsport.co.uk/accesso...es/9980/998025

I've just seen they do a 20 million cS one now!

Poise = Stokes for silicone greases because the density is 1. So the old Rocol Kilopoise range translates to units of 1000cS

Craig

[PJL]

kilopoise was used by B&O for damping self closing lids. Over the years it migrates to form a dark patch at the bottom of the equipment. Probably the same stuff used for toilet seats!

[m0cemdave]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Here you go - every viscosity you could ever need https://www.modelsport.co.uk/accesso...es/9980/998025

Craig

Thanks for the link, that looks very useful.
Does anyone know what the rating is for the kilopoise used in the well-known Jackson 6:1 reduction drives? I have a few that need refurbishing.

[Bazz4CQJ]

I would have thought that a ball-drive, like the Jackson, would do better with a grease rather than an oil, but when you realise that there are now 20 million cS oils available, the question seems less clear. I think I'd still be inclined to go for a grease... but maybe for tuning a radio, oil would be better

What should I use on my HRO worm drive?

B

[ms660]

Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ

What should I use on my HRO worm drive?

I used grease...Sthil grease that I use for my chainsaws and strimmers, did the job no problem.

Lawrence.

[Argus25]

For all the turntable repairs I have done in the past I use Phonolube, here is a description:

"Phonolube is a light bodied grease made of polymerized oil, specially developed for the lubrication of small geared mechanisms such as phonograph motors and changers. Retains its viscosity over a wide range of temperatures. Highly resistant to oxidation. Will retain excellent lubricating properties for years".

I have also used it on the slow moving parts of my vintage electric clocks.

I'm pretty sure this is very similar to the Lubriplate product mentioned by David, both are a white grease I think.

[Argus25]

....it looks like Phonolube is discontinued and as far as I can tell, replaced by this version of lubriplate:

"Lubriplate Aero Multi Purpose Low Temp Lithium Lubricant Grease LO113-086"

But obviously this is more of a grease than an oil.

['LIVEWIRE?']

I uses to use Molykote grease on moving parts of things such as the moving parts of cassette mechanisms. It's a black grease of a light texture. I'm not certain of it's chemical composition, but, IIRC, Blaupunkt used to recommend Molykote for use on their Car Cassette Players.

[Craig Sawyers]

These guys offer silicone greases that they say replace discontinued Kilopoise greases.

https://support.newgatesimms.com/fin...amping-grease/

They are not cheap though: £126.75 excluding VAT for a 500g jar.

Craig

[retailer]

I was having a think about the auto return setup where motion is transmitted only by the viscosity of the oil, it now makes sense - a direct mechanical or even spring transmitted motion would probably put excessive strain on the tonearm needle mounting system within the cartridge, it is the needle riding in the record groove that moves the tone arm to actuate the auto return. The needle mounting system must be very compliant in order to track the audio signal in the groove so it makes sense to reduce to a minimum any stress on the mounting system.

[Steve G4WCS]

someone here offering small quantities of the 0868 kilopoise.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rocol-086...jO2PzX5qcnOhPA

I have half a small tube here that I bought for telescope focussing mechanisms, looks like I need to lock it in the house safe in case the garage gets broken into

[Radio Wrangler]

Originally Posted by Bazz4CQJ

What should I use on my HRO worm drive?

B

A molybdenum disulphide-loaded grease in small quantity should be fine and give long life. You don't need high temperature or high pressure performance, just something which sticks around. The lubriplate 'stays where you put it' white grease would be a good choice too.


The Jackson ball drives rely on viscous drag to work, and their stiff feel like a camera lens movement is a give-away that some grade of kilopoise is involved.

David