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Old 30th May 2005, 10:48 am   #1
Radio_Doctor
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Default Tempovox Clock Radio

I am rebuilding my pair of these. I have decided to swap the clock hands over (one has nice original hands, the other has 1950s replacements). I have never taken clock hands off - can anyone advise please.
It is a small electric clock (SEC) with hour and minute hands only.

Many thanks, Kneale
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Old 30th May 2005, 2:28 pm   #2
Mike Phelan
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Default Re: Tempovox Clock Radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_Doctor
I am rebuilding my pair of these. I have decided to swap the clock hands over (one has nice original hands, the other has 1950s replacements). I have never taken clock hands off - can anyone advise please.
It is a small electric clock (SEC) with hour and minute hands only.

Many thanks, Kneale
Hi Kneale
Whatever you do, do not apply pressure to the actual hand, just the boss.
Minute hand is pushed on to centre arbor. Usually wiggling the boss whilst pulling will remove it, otherwise, put some cardboard under the hand to avoid marking the dial. Then, use a couple of largish screwdrivers diametrically opposite to twist them and pust the hand off.
SEC = Smiths Electric Clocks - later called 'Sectric'. Probably the Smiths 'Bijou' self-starting movement.
The clock will almost certainly need servicing - come back to us on this or pop it in the post to me.
Do the other hands fit?
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Old 30th May 2005, 11:33 pm   #3
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Default Re: Tempovox Clock Radio

Mike,
Many thanks. Hands now safely switched. Very good advice. The hands which I don't think are correct are a bit loose. The deco originals fit well. Only mistake was not lining up the hour hand with the hour - so had to take it all appart again.
The clock is working. It has a single knob to turn the hands, turning this seems to set the clock in motion. If I am not mistaken it has a "synchronous motor" inside.
I had wondered about a dab of oil on some of the clock cog spindles. I have a recollection of there being a special clock oil however - which I haven't got. Do you think it may be worth me getting some? I love this radio - it will have pride of place. I was planning on running the clock full time, though it remains to be seen what its accuracy is.
Thanks again
Kneale
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Old 31st May 2005, 8:34 am   #4
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Default Re: Tempovox Clock Radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_Doctor
Mike,
Many thanks. Hands now safely switched. Very good advice. The hands which I don't think are correct are a bit loose. The deco originals fit well. Only mistake was not lining up the hour hand with the hour - so had to take it all appart again.
The clock is working. It has a single knob to turn the hands, turning this seems to set the clock in motion. If I am not mistaken it has a "synchronous motor" inside.
I had wondered about a dab of oil on some of the clock cog spindles. I have a recollection of there being a special clock oil however - which I haven't got. Do you think it may be worth me getting some? I love this radio - it will have pride of place. I was planning on running the clock full time, though it remains to be seen what its accuracy is.
Thanks again
Kneale
Hi Kneale
Oops - forget to mention the hour hand positioning - I do it by autopilot!
Your clock is the larger Smiths movement that has a quadrant to start it, operated by a cone sleeve on the setting hand.
They are all synchronous motors - timekeeping is done by the alternators in the power station! So, accuracy is always correct if the clock is going.
Oiling. Only the pivots (ends of shafts) are oiled, and only clock oil is suitable. Other oils tend to 'creep' - clock oil has to 'stay put'.
If you can see any oil, it is over-oiled.
The wheels (old mangles have cogs! ) are not oiled, except the one next to the rotor, which is made of fibre. This needs light sticky grease - I use car stuff here.
If you are oiling, it is a waste of time if you do not dismantle everything and clean (petrol, naphtha, IPA) it first, otherwise you are just rearranging the dirt.
Keep rotor away from magnetic materials.
The rotor bearings are sintered bronze and are supposed to be soaked in warm oil overnight!
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Old 31st May 2005, 10:01 pm   #5
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Default Re: Tempovox Clock Radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phelan
Oiling. Only the pivots (ends of shafts) are oiled, and only clock oil is suitable. Other oils tend to 'creep' - clock oil has to 'stay put'.
If you can see any oil, it is over-oiled.
The wheels (old mangles have cogs! ) are not oiled, except the one next to the rotor, which is made of fibre. This needs light sticky grease - I use car stuff here.
If you are oiling, it is a waste of time if you do not dismantle everything and clean (petrol, naphtha, IPA) it first, otherwise you are just rearranging the dirt.
Keep rotor away from magnetic materials.
The rotor bearings are sintered bronze and are supposed to be soaked in warm oil overnight!
Sorry to barge in on your thread Kneale, but that’s an excellent summary of electric clock servicing, Mike – I’ve printed myself a copy and filed it with my clock books

Can I ask a few questions, please?

(1) Is it OK to use the same oil on all the pivots, from one end of the gear train to the other? I have a tiny bottle of Cailube X-10S Precision Instrument Oil which is described as “Non gumming and long lasting” and for use on “Instruments, gears, gauges, mechanisms, timers, clocks, guns, fishing reels, projectors etc.”, see http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.186/.f Would that do?

(2) I’m glad you say it’s OK to oil the fibre wheel, as I’ve got several Sectrics that could only be silenced by doing that - I thought I was being naughty though. Do you think the Electrolube Special Plastics Grease (SPG) that I use for video mechanisms would do?

(3) Is cleaning (after dismantling, of course) in an ultrasonic bath considered OK? If so, is the solution of Flash liquid in warm water that I normally use inadvisable? It seems to work OK for me.

(4) Are you serious about the rotor bearing treatment? If so, how does one go about it?

I’ve attached an exploded diagram of a Smiths Bijou movement – very useful for people like me who don’t know the proper names for all the bits .

Cheers,

Nick.
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Old 31st May 2005, 11:23 pm   #6
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Default Re: Tempovox Clock Radio

(Disclaimer: I have no experience with the particular clocks discussed here, only knowledge on mechanical clocks and watches in general.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Phelan
Only the pivots (ends of shafts) are oiled, and only clock oil is suitable.
This will depend on the exact mechanism under consideration. I'm fairly confident that pin lever escapements needs lubrication as well, as does the pallet jewels of an ordinary watch escapement. It is however nearly impossible to do correctly for mere mortals.

A few answers for Nick the dentist.

(1) Watchmakers keeps oil types as dentists keeps drills, they have one for every occasion. I'm 99.99% sure any general purpose oil is the wrong one, even for fairly large clock mechanisms. It is a running joke among watchmakers that people will (try to!) lubricate their fine clocks using whatever oil that said 'clock' on the can.

(2) Pass, no fiber wheels in any of my watches.

(3) Not only is it OK, it must be considered mandatory for a proper service of a clock or watch mechanism to have the parts ultrasonically cleaned. Simply soaking the parts in a solvent will not remove the solid grime and metal dust, which will quickly nullify any effort at cleaning if left in the bearings and gear teeth.

Soapy water will probably not hurt, but watchmakers have two different custom mixtures for cleaning both the larger metal parts, "soup", and the finer fluid used in the ultrasonic bath. Both mixtures are aggressive and contains some nasty stuff. I can probably find out precisely what they contain if you like, assuming 'my' watchmakers want to reveal the tricks of their trade.

Hope this helps a bit.

Frank.
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Old 1st Jun 2005, 8:20 am   #7
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Default Re: Tempovox Clock Radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickthedentist
Sorry to barge in on your thread Kneale, but that’s an excellent summary of electric clock servicing, Mike – I’ve printed myself a copy and filed it with my clock books

Can I ask a few questions, please?

(1) Is it OK to use the same oil on all the pivots, from one end of the gear train to the other? I have a tiny bottle of Cailube X-10S Precision Instrument Oil which is described as “Non gumming and long lasting” and for use on “Instruments, gears, gauges, mechanisms, timers, clocks, guns, fishing reels, projectors etc.”, see http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.186/.f Would that do?
Sounds OK, Nick - see comments on my reply to Frank.
Quote:
(2) I’m glad you say it’s OK to oil the fibre wheel, as I’ve got several Sectrics that could only be silenced by doing that - I thought I was being naughty though. Do you think the Electrolube Special Plastics Grease (SPG) that I use for video mechanisms would do?
Any light grease that is 'sticky' should be fine.
Quote:
(3) Is cleaning (after dismantling, of course) in an ultrasonic bath considered OK? If so, is the solution of Flash liquid in warm water that I normally use inadvisable? It seems to work OK for me.
Many consider this essential - I do not!
Quote:
(4) Are you serious about the rotor bearing treatment? If so, how does one go about it?
Thet is how it was done at the factory! I just warm the parts after removing winding, and use 3-in-1 oil or sewing machine oil (it creeps, not like clock oil) warmed up in hot water.
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Old 1st Jun 2005, 8:32 am   #8
Mike Phelan
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Default Re: Tempovox Clock Radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC-156
(Disclaimer: I have no experience with the particular clocks discussed here, only knowledge on mechanical clocks and watches in general.)

This will depend on the exact mechanism under consideration. I'm fairly confident that pin lever escapements needs lubrication as well, as does the pallet jewels of an ordinary watch escapement. It is however nearly impossible to do correctly for mere mortals.
Correct,Frank, but I was just referring to Kneale's clock.

Comments below. Slightly OT, but we do have a few clocks associated with radios.

(1) Watchmakers keeps oil types as dentists keeps drills, they have one for every occasion. I'm 99.99% sure any general purpose oil is the wrong one, even for fairly large clock mechanisms. It is a running joke among watchmakers that people will (try to!) lubricate their fine clocks using whatever oil that said 'clock' on the can.

I use 'normal' clock oil, watch oil for fine clocks or platforms, engine oil for springs or very large pivots.


(2) Pass, no fiber wheels in any of my watches.

Nearly all synchronous clocks do, to reduce the noise. They sometimes crumble, as well


(3) Not only is it OK, it must be considered mandatory for a proper service of a clock or watch mechanism to have the parts ultrasonically cleaned. Simply soaking the parts in a solvent will not remove the solid grime and metal dust, which will quickly nullify any effort at cleaning if left in the bearings and gear teeth.

They are useful, but I have been restoring clocks for 40+ years without. I agree that just soaking is no use at all on its own, but a bit of 'elbow grease' sorts that. When I get a round tuit I might make an ultrasonic cleaner, if I can scrounge a transducer and a load of 2N 3055s. They without managed OK from ca 1250-1950

Soapy water will probably not hurt, but watchmakers have two different custom mixtures for cleaning both the larger metal parts, "soup", and the finer fluid used in the ultrasonic bath. Both mixtures are aggressive and contains some nasty stuff. I can probably find out precisely what they contain if you like, assuming 'my' watchmakers want to reveal the tricks of their trade.

Standard cleaning fluid for dirty clocks is indeed soap and ammonia - now used as proprietary 'Horolene' et al, but used in the 18th c.
Most electric clocks are not that dirty, so a petrochemical solvent is fine - in the past, trichlorethylene was used
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Old 1st Jun 2005, 7:17 pm   #9
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Default Re: Tempovox Clock Radio

Thank you Mike, and Frank too, much appreciated.
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