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Old 12th Jan 2023, 2:18 pm   #41
McMurdo
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Lovely sharp pic so far, who'd've thought? You're an inspiration!
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 7:59 pm   #42
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I agree with Kevin, this is marvellous stuff! It's wonderful to see the set gradually coming back to life. What a terrific story and a testament to the robust nature of GEC televisions!

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Old 13th Jan 2023, 1:40 pm   #43
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

And the robust nature of the restorer! I'll bet lots of us are following this thread with interest. I think I'd just have salvaged a few parts and left the rest to return to nature.
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Old 13th Jan 2023, 9:47 pm   #44
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMurdo View Post
Lovely sharp pic so far, who'd've thought? You're an inspiration!
Yes indeed! You have inspired me to run up my 23" 'Blue Front' GEC to see what is needed. After wanting one for years this one came along around 9 years ago, all I have done in that time is have a peep inside!
I hope it is as good as yours!
Rich.
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Old 14th Jan 2023, 12:52 am   #45
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Thanks all for maintaining an interest in this, even though it's in dribs and drabs.

Today I got full height by replacing R103 (560k, reading 800k). I also replaced the height pot (P5, 1M in the manual but they must have changed it up to 1M5) which was a bit temperamental (tapping it would make the height fluctuate). I replaced it with a 2M but might change it back again for originality if I can tighten up the track contacts.

I have now run the 'set' for a bit longer and after 15 to 20 minutes horizontal hold is lost and cannot be restored until power off for a little cool down. A resistor must be on the threshold and getting a bit hot under the collar.

It really is a superb CRT. I am glad that I didn't rejuvenate it when first tested for emissions as it has warmed up a treat naturally. Today the phone camera had no problem getting a band-free image !

Current work in progress (apart from needing to track down loss of H-hold) is restoring the power switch and wiring to it. Can an owner of a similar set please get me a picture of what the mains lead goes into (before the in-line fuse) ? Cheers.
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Old 14th Jan 2023, 12:55 am   #46
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by McMurdo View Post
Lovely sharp pic so far, who'd've thought? You're an inspiration!
Yes indeed! You have inspired me to run up my 23" 'Blue Front' GEC to see what is needed. After wanting one for years this one came along around 9 years ago, all I have done in that time is have a peep inside!
I hope it is as good as yours!
Rich.
If the ease of getting a picture out of this field-find is anything to go by your blue-front will be a doddle! Good luck with it and let us know how it goes.
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Old 14th Jan 2023, 5:10 pm   #47
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I've been following this too, with some amazement at the results obtained so far. I have a 23" blue-front GEC TV just like slidertogrid (I think it's the same chassis as your 19" Sobell). It does produce a picture but no sound on both standards. A coil attached to the LOPT had gone open-circuit, currently bridged with a wire link to get the set partially working. I haven't done much else with it in over 3 years. Must have another go at it.
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 5:41 pm   #48
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfatangowhisky View Post

Current work in progress (apart from needing to track down loss of H-hold) is restoring the power switch and wiring to it. Can an owner of a similar set please get me a picture of what the mains lead goes into (before the in-line fuse) ? Cheers.
The mains lead just goes into a flex grip before the fuse holder. This is a picture of my 23" I can't access the 19" Sobell at the moment. I think my GEC may need a good Hoover out before I apply any power! Strangely the model number foil sticker which is usually stuck to the back cover is on the line output screening cover on this set...
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Old 15th Jan 2023, 11:09 pm   #49
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I have found the service manual and I think your set's model number may be 1018.
The 1014 has a 13 channel tuner.
Rich
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Old 17th Jan 2023, 10:56 am   #50
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Its been inspirational to follow this major repair restoration. I use to do a lot of work on these GEC dual standard b/w sets. They really were of solid build and we could keep them going for years.
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Old 17th Jan 2023, 2:34 pm   #51
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I also have very fond memories of these sets I used to get them from the local TV shop for 25p each. This would have been '74/75. I suppose they were displaced by the 'colour boon'. Dual standard rotary tuner sets were disposed of ex rental so there was always a few of these and BRC 850/950 sets.
My Grandad had a holiday caravan at Hunstanton and had a 19" Blue front set the only problem was that the mains voltage dropped when everyone had cookers and heaters on so the picture shrank and rolled.
I fitted a double pole switch that shorted a couple of dropper sections one HT one Heaters for when this happened but Grandad often didn't switch it back when the mains came back up resulting in some valve replacements !
Despite this the set kept going for quite a few years. Eventually after a period of non use over winter the LOPT overwind burned up so that spelled the end! He was upgraded to a 19" GEC colour set as by this time they were becoming available ex-rental.
Rich
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Old 19th Jan 2023, 11:19 pm   #52
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Thanks for the info on the mains cord inlet and model numbers guys.

We are now in 625-land but the grass still looks greener back over in 405-land.

I got here via such distractions as fretting about the voltage coming out of the '12v' tap-off from HT3. I had it disconnected from the UHF tuner while I sorted out the main chassis, and it was reading around 20v 'open'. I was worried that maybe a resistor on the divider had changed in value as the 12v stage was outputting too much and would cook the tuner. I ran it at a lower mains input via a 200W limiter and got ~14v on the 12v line now which gave me more confidence to hook it up to the tuner which then made that 14v drop to around 9v. With this I could see that the UHF tuner circuit was quite high impedence and would drop the 20v to the proper 12v so ran it up at full power and got tuned in to the output from my Black Star, confirming that the 12v line was now reading in the correct range (around 13v actually but I'll let it get away with it!)

As you can see, the image leaves somewhat to be desired but next I will connect a proper 625 video source and run a test card through it to see what that looks like. I would still think that there will be a bit more work required to get a better picture.

In other news, I have got the mains on-off switch working and wired in, and the slipping line timebase seems to have gone away as I have had the 'set' running for around 2 hours (in 405) with no loss of lock, and a nice cool overwind!
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Old 21st Jan 2023, 5:24 pm   #53
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Excellent write up and excellent dedication to the cause ,it just shows what you can achieve with the perseverance ,these are nice sets I have 2 of the GEC branded ones both 19
Well done

Chris
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 2:39 pm   #54
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Hi all,

Unless anybody can convince me otherwise I am thinking of breaking up the carcass for spares (I know the tuning knob will be spoken for, and I am sure somebody could use the LOPT). I think I might keep the CRT and tuners for myself.

That is unless somebody has a spare cabinet kicking around?

Making a cabinet is another project I don't need.
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Old 26th Mar 2023, 10:21 pm   #55
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

While I admit the knob would be useful for my set, I also think it would be a shame to break this set up really as it so wants to live... Surviving it's time dumped outside as it has. Have you got room to keep it as it is for the time being? A suitable incomplete set may come along you never know...

Chris on the VRAT forum had a chassis and tube from a "barrel" Murphy that he restored. Quite some time later I bought a Murphy from a schoolfriend and with it came a spares set, no tube, no valves and a well robbed chassis. This provided a cabinet, front and glass for the set Chris had. Nothing is beyond hope....
Rich.
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 11:13 am   #56
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Absolutely amazing!

The only thing I remember about these TVs from way back is it was the first TV I encounted with double sided print. The only common fault were two wirewound resistors, I think 5.6K and 18K which burnt out. Engineers would piggy back replacements rather than tackle the double sided print in the field. I can't remember whether it was a valve failure that caused these resistors to burn. The picture displayed though was the best I had seen.

Yes the model number was 1018. Radio Rentals had a few. They were hated by engineers as the only way to repair them was to component level. The Baird TVs of the time could have their tuners and complete chassis changed in order to repair them.
There was a shortage of proper TV engineers at the time and a few engineers I worked with had no qualifications, but had practical ability.




Paul.

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Old 27th Mar 2023, 4:53 pm   #57
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I think a lot of rental places wrote off the dual standard sets, especially the rotary tuner ones, when they were returned from rental before they were actually beyond economic repair as in the early '70s when these sets were 8/9 years old colour sets were going out fast. This meant a lot of black and white sets were returned a lot being single standard that were probably only 4 years old. So they kept them for re-rental and changeovers for older sets and disposed of the older sets maybe a little earlier than they would have done.
I would prowl the shops after school and weekends there was always a few old sets to pick from. The shop nearest my home allowed you to take them free often older 405 and unconverted duals were still working. A shop in town that was bigger and had a lot of rentals charged 25p for an old set sometimes less speaker. Those sets were usually 'later' but often had little wrong.
Happy days! I used to flog 405 sets at school for 30 bob and 625 D/S ones for a fiver!
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 12:02 pm   #58
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

The first TV I sold (to a schoolfriend) was a similar model, but 23" with the all-wood front.
Gave very good pictures.
Like has been mentioned, a local rental shop disposed of these while still full of life, but unfortunately for me before being stacked up in their shed they'd all been 'necked'. Annoying!
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 12:35 pm   #59
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Yes I had a similar experience. My friends and I would prowl the TV shops looking for sets, there was a shop that wouldn't let us have any old sets. There was a big pile at the back of the workshop which could be seen from the shop. It was in retrospect quite a grotty little back street repair shop not at all 'posh'! The sets were all the usual suspects, Style 70, GEC like this set, Bush etc. We tried a couple of times and gave up.
Some time later on one of out dump trawls there were loads of sets strewn about along with a load of 78s and a Westminster radio (I still have a few of the records and the radio they came home on my bike) Every TV had the tube neck broken. I plundered the valves and the LOPT cage from the style 70 as I had a set that needed one.
I knew they were the sets from the shop in question, I just did... So a week later when we in the area we called by and had a look. Sure enough all the sets had gone. Not much later the shop closed fell derelict and was demolished.
I can remember the road, It was called 'Wally st' ! Or it might have been Dickheads st , Sorry Dickens st..!

Rich
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 3:07 pm   #60
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Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Quote:
Originally Posted by williamsunique View Post
The only thing I remember about these TVs from way back is it was the first TV I encounted with double sided print. The only common fault were two wirewound resistors, I think 5.6K and 18K which burnt out. Engineers would piggy back replacements rather than tackle the double sided print in the field. I can't remember whether it was a valve failure that caused these resistors to burn.Paul.
The 18k was underrated and slowly drifted down in value, taking the 5.6k with it.

In the original design of this EH90 stage (first implemented on a hand wired chassis), the 18k was a Welwyn metal oxide/wirewound type, which was correctly rated - "penny pinching" design?
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