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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 1:01 pm   #61
Radio Wrangler
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria View Post
David, I have got a shim in there because of your previous information about minding the gap, and how it was the important part! I have a hazy memory that I tested the inductance with two mica shims (they came with the FX2241) and reduced it to one on analysing the results. I'll have to check again using the signal generator method discussed before knowing for sure. In my notebook I have the value of 84µH for this core with this shim.
Ah, good. On this sort of circuit you get a fair amount of tolerance and my figure of 160uH came out of my guess of how powerful this supply might be.

84uH will charge the capacitor under test a bit quicker than I'd guessed, but not cause any problems, That peak current limit resistor acts as the ultimate backstop.

There really is a lot of tolerance in the system to allow component values to be varied. The art is in knowing how far you can go.

It should work just fine, and if you experience any limitations, we can twiddle things a little.

Taking some time to get up to voltage is OK, limited current limits the size of the bang if a capacitor really is kaput. Leaky capacitors will rob current, slow the rise down and will limit the voltage it seems to settle at. As the capacitor reforms (which does and should take current) the voltage will come up tracking electrochemical activity in the capacitor.


Sometimes in building something you have to do as much work as done in designing it in the first place

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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 1:10 pm   #62
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

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Originally Posted by G6ONEDave View Post
0.18 ohm 5watt res, I've not checked my stores yet.
The 0.27 shown in the circuit diagram will be OK, no need to change it. You should be able to get plenty of volts 0.18 simply came out of my wet-finger guess of total available power. The power supply will simply change the on-time to charge up the inductor field enough that the output voltage is right. This resistor just sets how hard it is prepared to try if it ever has to go flat-out.

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Old 25th Sep 2020, 2:00 pm   #63
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I have been spending some time trying to sort out the aspect ratio of the original magazine printout, with varied success. Sorry I can't attach my corrected scans, as they are too large to upload here but if anyone is interested I could email if you PM. This may be of help to others, although I don't g'tee that any are perfect! Just hope it might be of help to others.
The images include a mag page in .tif, a cropped control panel in .tif and then a control panel only in an A4 .doc and then the full thing on A3 again as a .doc. I tried doing this in various image handling programs without any success other than the crop in MS paint 3D. Did the final results in MS Word97 and that let me change sizes to where I wanted without all the hassles of the other image software. Might just be me but all the other programs would not retain any changes when sending to printer. Another annoying thing was that they did not return the image to original after selecting the go back command, which I tried to use to reset the image size, so that I could work from a reference point.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 3:42 pm   #64
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I've got the magazine article in a PDF and have made my own panel to suit my box, which I'm just pricing up getting CNC engraved so I can wax or paint the grooves. I have been editing it as a vector file and using the knob scales as a basis. I could adjust the original panel dimensions to your wishes including hole dimensions as I have a variety of graphics programmes.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 4:29 pm   #65
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Thank you UB, I have got the original size to fit the pcb sorted but the file size as a zipped .doc is 8.6Mb and the A3 one is even bigger, so unable to post them to the forum. The .jpg original scan is substantially smaller in size, so perhaps I could revisit that one and try resizing it.
My panel is now an oddball size, due to me not checking the 133% copy enlargement against the pcb before I began the panel metalwork. I have since scanned my metal work on a different printer scanner as a .tif and this time it looks to be the right actual size when opened in MS Paint 3D in Windows 10. To my mind this is most likely the difference between using Brother and Epson scan drivers. I will have a play and see where I get to, I have done previous panel scans and added text without too much agro. There is a neat tool in Paint that will cut a selection from the artwork and then the now blank selection can be changed to background colour, so that you would not know something has been removed.

Build wise I have wired up the LCD to the pcb with slightly longer wires, as it needs to be raised to meet the control panel. I also had to resite the 2 x 470nF caps to the reverse side of the pcb, due to them being oversize and not allowing room for my LCD stand offs.
The ferrite pot cores and bobbins have now arrived, so I need to sort out the winding sometime soon. Some time back I purchased one of those Chinese manual coil winders but having put it away somewhere safe, I will have to have a search for it. Have you noticed that one can always remember where it used to be but not where it actually is now! The good thing is that I have located my box of enamelled copper wire, so will go through it with my micrometer to find something suitable for the job.
I also need to pull my finger out and look into that PIC programming. I found my USB PIC reader/writer and it's a PicKit3 with the ICD? pcb with a zif socket fitted. My Windows 7 laptop already has the MPLab software installed so hopefully all will come together. I still wish to keep your kind offer available though incase I become unstuck with this PIC, if that's OK.
Dave
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 7:04 pm   #66
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I just showed that as an example. It won't fit anyone else's box! As I've been editing in Affinity Designer (rather better than Adobe Illustrator in my opinion, and an awful lot cheaper) I've retained all information as vectors rather than rasters so it can scale infinitely without pixellating. A jpeg isn't very good for this kind of artwork as it will require a high resolution to avoid artefacts, which will be very noticeable because of the limited colours. A vector format such as svg, eps etc. will be the bee's knees. Word is not a graphics programme so handles images very poorly, hence your large file size. Inkscape is a freeware vector graphics programme used by professionals (including me on occasion) but it's a bit harder to get to grips with, though powerful. I haven't used the new version of Paint in Windows 10, but I understand it's more useful for serious projects than previous iterations.

I think if you've attempted to write PIC programmes, you'll find this a doddle! However, if you do fall down I'll happily PIC you up.
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 7:15 pm   #67
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I've got Affinity Photo here and I'm rather pleased with it. THey seem to be doing a good job at limiting adobe's monopoly. Might get Designer for completeness. Affordable too.

David
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 10:57 am   #68
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

I ended up trying Word, as the usual suspects just were not doing the job. I know Word is primarily a word processor and is not the best for dealing with images but it usually does what I want. However in this case not so good. What I can't get my head around with a lot of so called image handling software is, after doing a scan that is set to an A4 overall image size, why don't these various programs display the scan at the same A4 physical dimension as the original? They either produce an over size image that when printed is smaller than the original, or the displayed image is smaller than the original. To me if something is scanned, the scan should come out the same size as the original. I don't have this issue when scanning text or just doing a straight copy onto paper.
I will investigate the 2 programs mentioned and failing that do a layout in Autocad LT97 using mm measurements of the metal panel on my Windows XP computer. I don't have any autocad that does this sort of thing on Windows 10. I do have pcb creation software but the text font is non changeable and is not one that I particularly like.
Dave
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Old 26th Sep 2020, 5:13 pm   #69
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Well I finally got the control panel overlay done. My method, which I don't profess to be the best way was; scan the metal panel as a .tif, then insert as object into textmaker (free program that's compatible with MSWord). I then adjusted the image size on the screen and after several printouts to get that correct, I then added the text using text boxes. Once everything was positioned on the scanned image, I then deleted the imported scan, which left all of my text where I had positioned it. Then a printout onto some light card was done and voila! The troublesome control panel overlay is now completed. Not tried the mentioned software yet, although I have downloaded it along with the suggested 'scribus 1.5x'. A bonus is that now the original image is not part of the saved .doc, it's file size has shrunk dramatically.
After doing some internet searching about the image size issues, the general consensus points to it being a Windows thing!

I tried to write the PIC earlier today but ran into a problem to do with the 'target device not being found'. After some investigation it seems that my Pickit3 is faulty, the VDD output supply won't change from a permanent 1.1volt when it is supposed to be 5volt or even 3.3volt. I am purchasing another and will see if that works any better. If not I will see about building a suitable unit.
Dave
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 10:41 am   #70
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Just an update to where I'm at with this project. The control panel is completed after some position changes to the voltage selection switch legends.

I found my coil winder and am now in the process of mounting it onto a baseboard. This board will carry a motor drive, motor supply, supply wire reel holder and hopefully some sort of baling arrangement for the coil winding.

The PIC is proving to be more difficult than expected. I am having a problem with the MPLabs software and it's control of the PicKit3 and ICD sub panel. At the present ime, I am getting a error message on the lines of; 'target device VDD not found' followed by the check device is inserted etc. I have been into the obscurely hidden voltage selection for the PicKit3 in the program area but so far it's not happening. I have tried 2 PicKit3 units and both do the same. When I measure the VDD instead of getting 5v all I get is 1.1v! I have since seen something on the internet about setting up the ICD3, so maybe there is another area in MPLabs that needs attention.

Anyway, that's where I currently have got to.
Dave
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Old 8th Oct 2020, 12:43 am   #71
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

For the Pickit / VDD problem, Pickit2 / Pickit3 have the option to supply, or not to supply, the target system during the programming process. If you choose the second option the Pickit will look for a supply voltage coming into it on the V+ pin rather than sending one out.

The Pickit's maximum current output capability is rather limited - maybe not more than 100mA - so if there is a lot on the same rails as the PIC the Pickit may not be capable of powering the target.

If you power up the target system and let that power the PIC chip, the Pickit will detect that the target is powered and it will just use the GND, Clk, Data and Reset lines to program the chip.
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Old 8th Oct 2020, 10:27 am   #72
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Thanks for the advice re the PicKit system, maybe I should look into an external supply for the VDD and turn off the power from PicKit option in the MPLabs software. I will report back when I get chance to try it out.
Dave
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Old 8th Oct 2020, 5:20 pm   #73
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

OK, I have now tried running the VDD supply from a second USB socket on my laptop, perhaps a little dangerous should anything go wrong. Anyway, I now get a new error message, which starts of OK for target VDD. This is the message;

Target voltage detected
Target device ID (0x0) is an invalid device ID. Please check your connections to the target device.
Device erased...
Programming...
The following memory area (s) will be programmed:
Program memory: start address = 0x0, end address = 0xd43
Configuration memory
Program memory
Address: 0 expected value: 2805 Received value: 0
Failed to program device.

I have tried all 3 positions in the 40 way zif socket (top, middle and bottom) and the only place that even tries to work with the above message is the middle position. I tried adjusting the 3 links to suit the PIC but to no avail. Indeed, I discovered that in the bottom position all that happened was that the PIC got fried, luckily without damage to my laptop supplies.
I am going to try again but will make my own 18 pin zif target board, hardwired specifically for the 16F88 pinout. Part of me thinks that I should give up and admit defeat and then take up UB's kind offer but I really want to solve this as I still have some other PIC projects on the back burner to do with lighting displays.
Dave
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Old 8th Oct 2020, 5:23 pm   #74
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Check you have the right device selected in the drop-down menu in the software. I had that same error as I hadn't selected the right PIC 'family' so it wasn't ready for there to be anything to talk to.

I ran solid jumper wire out to the connector and it took the 5V just fine from the PICKit, it was just that menu that created an obstacle.
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Old 8th Oct 2020, 9:21 pm   #75
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

If Dave makes up a little board with nothing more than a socket for the target IC and a 6-pin connector and wires going between the appropriate pins on both items, that should do the trick and with only the chip to power the Pickit should be able to power the target IC while it programmes it.

The default setting on the standalone support software - is that what you are using? -for the Pickit 2 or 3 is that it auto-identifies the connected device provided the device is already connected when you run up the software (and you have the setting for the Pickit to power the target turned on). I don't usually have to use the 'Manually select device' option.
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 10:00 am   #76
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Thank you both for your helpful comments. I am using MPLabs v5.20 with the PicKit3 and target board MG (as supplied with the PicKit3), or perhaps I should say trying to use. I have attached a screen shot of the MPLabs display, which hopefully is showing all the correct info for this PIC project.
One odd thing that I noticed is that the supplied target board only has 5 pins for the PicKit 3 to join to. the sixth pin is absent and there is no track provision for it. The connected pins are; MCLR, VCC, GND, PGB and PGC, also there is no MCLR pull up resistor or 0.1uf cap accross the supply. I have since retrofitted a 4k7 pull up between MCLR and VCC, also a 0.1uf cap accross the supply input. This target board has a 40 pin zif socket fitted and there are 3 sets of links; J1, J2 and J3 with some position suggestions silk screened on the target board underside. However the project PIC is not one of the suggestions. Having metered out the VDD (VCC) supply to the 40 pin zif socket, I found that several pins are joined to the supply, making it critical to get the chip in the correct set of holes and it appears that PIC pin 1 goes to zif socket pin 5 and not pin 1 as I would have expected. Hopefully this will be a lot more straight forward when I replace the target board with my replacement version.
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 11:26 am   #77
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Edit: Sorry, just realised from your image that you are using MPLAB X, not original MPLAB. The Micropchip software archive is here:-

https://www.microchip.com/developmen...nloads-archive

Way down the above page is a little standalone utility, the main purpose of which is to load in hex files and send them to a PicKit 3. That might prove easier than trying to use MPLAB X. When on that (very long) page, hit CTRL-F and search for 'Pickit'.
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 11:53 am   #78
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

As Sirius says, the standalone application is much better for beginners to use.

The one you are looking for is 'PICkit 3 Programmer App and Scripting Tool v3.10'

On the question of 5 pin's and 6 holes on the PK3 - that 6th contact is for programming of things like EEproms and not used when programming PICs.

As a side note, Mplab IPE (installed with MPlab X) is another standalone piece of programming software, but is also a nightmare to use at times - best stay away from either of them.
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 5:20 pm   #79
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Sirus, I will look into that stand alone section, once I get my replacement target board built. Thought I might make 2 or 3 target boards to accomodate different PICs, that way hopefully bypassing any future connection issues.

Thanks Terry for openly saying that the MPLab X software is a nightmare to use, I thought it was just me, so that makes me feel a lot better. There was not a lot of choice for supported software these days and the MPLab program is often shipped on a CD with the PicKit3. Also noted that the 6th pin is for EEprom programming, which is something else I have wanted to do for a long time now. But first, I will try to achieve the PIC job in hand, before moving into another programming job. I have just 1 PIC16F88 of unknown condition left, so have ordered another 4 today.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 12:58 am   #80
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Default Re: EPE Electrolytic Capacitor Tester/Reformer Construction

Re the programming adapter, you may be interested in this on my website https://www.vk5tm.com/homebrew/pk3/pk3_adapter.php

Happy for you to PM me if you have any questions.
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