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Old 11th Nov 2018, 2:23 pm   #1801
Superscope
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Hi Refugee,

The NATO Stock Number Sinewave gave is for the Actual Avometer Mk VI that should have
been in your Case.
The Case's themselves have their own individual NATO Stock Numbers.

Thanks to Sinwave for the missing Model 8 Mk VI number which I didn't have.

I'm now only missing the Multimeter Test Set No 1 - Mk2 numbers for both the Meter and the Case. The Meter was a Model 8 Mk V, but I don't know if it was different to the one supplied in the Mk 3 Test Set.

Incidentally, the Model 7x and Model 8x were also supplied to the Military with the following NATO Stock Numbers:

Model 7 sx Mk II Nato Stock Number 6625-99-943-1531
Model 8 sx Nato Stock Number 6625-99-943-1532

As far as I know, these were not supplied in any kind of Set.

The Military 7x I have, came in a Black Hard Vinyl NATO Style Case, but it does not
have any Writing or NATO Stock Numbers on it.

There is also a Black Hard Vinyl NATO Style Case which has NATO Stock Number 6625-99-105-7049.

Not been able to find much out about it, but I believe it was probably an updated replacement to the original Soft Grey/Green Case.
It has a Cut Out at the Top for the Model 7x/8x/9x Earthing Screw Terminal, which the Later Black NATO cases don't have.
The Military Model 8 Mk V & VI didn't have Earthing Screw Terminals of course.

Ian
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 4:27 pm   #1802
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superscope View Post
Hi Refugee,

The NATO Stock Number Sinewave gave is for the Actual Avometer Mk VI that should have
been in your Case.
The Case's themselves have their own individual NATO Stock Numbers.

Thanks to Sinwave for the missing Model 8 Mk VI number which I didn't have.

I'm now only missing the Multimeter Test Set No 1 - Mk2 numbers for both the Meter and the Case. The Meter was a Model 8 Mk V, but I don't know if it was different to the one supplied in the Mk 3 Test Set.
I've got serveral NATO versions of the model 8 Mk5.

NSN 6625-99-620-9572 and
NSN 6625-99-650-2823

Not sure which is which or why or whether one or the other makes that a TS No.1 Mk2 or 3. I can't be certain because as we all know, cases do and have been swapped around from time to time.

The only difference I can see in some is that some have the indication to set to OFF and DC for transit and some do not, I assume the older ones do not.

However, I do have some without the OFF and DC instruction which have the same NSN as the ones which do.

I'll try and dig out all of my NATO 8/5's and let you know, as I've received them, the NSN on the meter and whether the case says Mk2 or Mk3.
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 5:32 pm   #1803
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Thanks,

That's one more NSN for the Survey.
Just need to work out now, where 6625-99-620-9572 fits in with the Sets?

I guess the Military side of Avo Meters is still a Work in Progress.
Another useful purpose of this Survey Thread.

Incidentally, just to make things even more complicated, there is another
NSN inside the Case Lid,

This might be the NATO Stock number for the associated User Manual.
Can't be sure, because the NATO records are not very informative, but I
came across a description "Case, Carry, Instr" for one of the Numbers.

Ian
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 9:36 pm   #1804
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

I'm about to pop these details into the database, but interested to get any opinions on the age of a Model 8 with serial # 1973-C-1051?
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 9:51 pm   #1805
Phil G4SPZ
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

I’m pretty sure that the last 3 or 4 digits indicate the month and year, so 1051 suggests October 1951. Your venerable Avo 8 is therefore 67 years old and collecting its state pension by now!
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Old 11th Nov 2018, 10:56 pm   #1806
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Hi Clive,

Your AVO is most definitely an October 1951 instrument.
It's a Model 8 Mk I like Dave mentioned a while back which also supports that Date.

It was never officially called a Mk I at the time, but became so after the
introduction of later Mk's.


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Old 14th Nov 2018, 12:53 am   #1807
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Having now gone through every meter of the NATO job lot, the large NATO/MOD job lot aquasition consists as follows.

The attached spreadsheet details the types.

Interestingly I note that I have an 8x Panclimatic with the scaling in 2.5, 25, 250.

The 9sx is made up of variants stating
  • Test Set Multirange No.1 High Sensitivity - on the rear plate
  • Some on the movement scale sate - Multimeter type 12889/|\5QP/17447
  • Some on the movement scale sate - Test Set Multirange No.1 High Sensitivity NSN 6625-99-105-7050

So there is a variation in the 9sx, or what a 9sx is.

There are some regular Test Set Multirange No.1 High Sensitivity, sated in the movement as usual and again as usual on the rear plate.

So whether the TSMR No.1 HS I have did at one point have a 9sx badge on it which fell off in the past, I don't know. As we know, some of the model 8 mark 2 and 3 badges on some meters have come away and been lost, so could this be a possibility?

Or was there genuinely a mixture of 9sx being a TSMR No.1 HS and the seperate unit which was never designated to be a 9sx?

As noted, some 9sx have the type 12889 in the scale and not TSMR No.1 HS, apart from on the rear plate.

One 9sx has a Z prefixing the nato stock number and the same on the NSN for the case.

The 7x doesn't show anything unsual.

The case types are noted also. Gn being green, 2bk/2 twist being two buckles and two twist locks on the case and 4 twist locks being the other type with no buckles at all, just four nice twist locks.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx NATO Avometer Job Lot.xlsx (4.7 KB, 29 views)
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 5:11 pm   #1808
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Now there's a few Numbers to get ones Head around!
Although we would need the Meter's Serial Number (Date) to make more sense of them.

Can we have the Matching Serial Numbers to go with the NATO Numbers?

Most of the Numbers are familiar, but there are a few new ones.
Can I confirm that the 6625-99-949-1853 you have is printed on the 9sx itself, as you put one reference to it under the Case Numbers. I've not seen this number before.
Can't see the same number being on a Case and a Meter, but hey, who knows!

6625-99-949-1823 & 6625-99-949-1824 are new to me as well, but they are very close to the Military 7x & 8x NATO Numbers, so it is possible they may be the correct Cases for those Models. (Only a Guess at this Stage).

6625-99-949-1977 is also a New number. No ideas with this one yet.

Also which 9sx's have an ID stamp on the Front Panal?
I'm guessing it will be the ones with "Multimeter type 12889 5QP/17447 on the Scaleplate.

Do any of the later 6625-99-105-7050 (9sx Scaleplate) Meters have an ID Stamp on the front?

I have only ever seen one Meter where the Model ID looks to have fallen off. Actually on Ebay. Can't imagine it happens very often, but for sure it can.
That would leave a very clear Hole in the Front Panel.
All of the blank ID stamps seem to be part of the Panel molding, so they probably can't fall out.

Based on the limited Data I have, the original 9sx did have an ID Stamp on the Front.
The Scaleplate had "Multimeter type 12889 5QP/17447" and no NSN.

Later versions had no mention of 9sx at all, the ID stamp is Blank, and the NSN is printed on the Scaleplate. see post 1451 where this is discussed together with other differences.

I do have a 9sx Operations Manual (essentially the same as the Test Set Multirange No 1 Manual, but in the slightly older Size format), so whether the 9sx was marketed under it's own Name, who knows.

I get the feeling, the 9sx was probably in production for the Uk Military before NATO picked up on it, hence earlier Meters don't have a NATO Number.

Ian
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 6:47 pm   #1809
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

I have just input my meters onto the google document, apart from AvoMINORS as follows:
Model 1A, Model 2, Type E, Type HR. I will leave inputting them for a while in case a separate listing is added- (The stats might be more useful than if they're all input under 'Other' or a general Avominor title.) Dave
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 6:58 pm   #1810
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Hi Ian,

I'll need to come back to you about the 6625-99-949-1853 case.

For now, I can confirm the 9sx with the Test Set No.1 6625-99-105-7050 in the movement also have the 6625-99-949-1853 on the case - doesn't that just add to some confusion!

Regarding the missing badges on some meters, was that ever a button place which was not drilled through? I thought it was a badged popped/pressed/glued into the a round depression rather than a hole. Could that be a scenario?

Also, interestingly the case which one of the 7x meters is in, case NSN 6625-99-949-0464 has another NSN on the case in the form of an embossed label 6625-99-949-1523. I wonder why that would be. The case doesn't look any different to any other 1523 case. So could the case NSN be along the lines of a kit formed inside the case? Not sure, as some of the NSN's are inside the case and not on the front and some are on the front.
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 9:20 pm   #1811
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Gents,

The NSN relationship is a real tangled web, I'll try to attach a Page from the AP120M for the Test Set Multi Range No 1, it gives the NSN's for the complete set and each of the component parts.
I'll also try to add a couple of TEMO (JSP 509) datasheets for TSMR No1 Mk3 & Mk4.
I have some more references somewhere, I'll try to find them.
I think that the Z4 prefix denotes a Ground DMR (I think that means not RAF or Navy but would need to check).
Hope this helps some

Chris
Attached Files
File Type: docx TSMR_No1.docx (97.2 KB, 15 views)
File Type: pdf 6502822.pdf (37.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: pdf 7285965.pdf (46.6 KB, 11 views)
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Old 15th Nov 2018, 9:28 pm   #1812
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Superscope,

Just noticed that attachment #1 answers your NATO Stock Number 6625-99-105-7049 query posted on the 11th

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Old 15th Nov 2018, 10:50 pm   #1813
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Hi Chris,

Thanks for those Documents, they are quite informative.
My searches didn't come up with any of those.

A tangled Web indeed!

It wasn't a bad guess with the 6625-99-105-7049 NSN though.
Looks like it was a replacement to the original Soft Vinyl Case, although
I can't find a Date on the Documents, but I'm guessing it would be around
1970/1971 just before the introduction of the Model 8 Mk V.

Interesting that the Test Set Mk 4 is either a Model 8 Mk VI or VII.
The Document would suggest they have the same NSN which is a surprise.

Do you know of a Document relating to the Test Set Mk 2 ?


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Old 16th Nov 2018, 4:30 pm   #1814
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Here's an interesting one. The cases all need a good clean, plenty of dust and grime on them.

Anyway, whilst cleaning one 9sx and the case for it, I noticed that on the front of the case, as previously noted the NSN is 6625-99-949-1999. However, lift the lid on the case and there's another NSN inside the case - 6625-99-949-1977.

I wonder why there would be two different NSNs on the same case?

As I clean the others, I'll need to see if this is a trend repeated elsewhere.
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Old 16th Nov 2018, 7:58 pm   #1815
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Ian,

Yep I was surprised to see the TEMO data sheet state Model 8 Mk VI or VII but TEM (Test Equipment Management I Think) were the RAF authority based at RAF Brampton, I was down there a few time when I was on Nimrod, so I think the data is right.
There is a lot of info on the disc I have but I've not previously explored it.
I'll do some chasing on the 5QP numbers but before NSN's there were only Section & Reference numbers and the old ones were 5 digits, so 5QP is the old money version of 6625-99 and the 5 digit number the predecessor to the 7 digit numbers. Initially they just put zeros on the front but whenever they had a conflict they would give it a new number.
The AP is from 1968 updated in 1988 but i think its just the Parts Catalogue at the back which was updated, the pages attached show the buckle and latch case.
I think that I read somewhere that the TSMR No1 did not have a button also I dont know when the hard cases came in but i dont remember seeing them in service until sometime in the 80's .
I'll have a look to see if I can find anything on the 6625-99-949-1999 vs 6625-99-949-1977 but a lot of the data is being deleted because it has been dormant for more than 6 years (philistines - dont delete anything!!)

cheers Chris
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Old 17th Nov 2018, 10:36 pm   #1816
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

I have around a dozen Avo's of various types which I will list when I get a chance.
Tonight I found my late father's Avo Minor Universal. On checking the battery, I noticed on the cover was penciled in his writing, 8/2/57. The battery read fine, so I put it back in the case, but pretty sure it was not the 1957 one.!!
Serial number on dial is U 129339-654.
Under those numbers Mod 1.
What date would this have been made ? 6/54 or 3/39 ?
On checking the DC range only the 5 volt range is working. Is there a circuit about on line ?
Mike.
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Old 17th Nov 2018, 11:53 pm   #1817
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Mike, that is a June 1954 meter, quite a late one. The later ones have slightly more attention to detail in the manufacturing, i find- so it is certainly worth having.

If only the 5 volt range is working this suggests the 25volt bobbin may be open circuit, the favourite quick fix to this is to solder in a resistor instead. (removing defunct bobbins is a bit of a faff and liberates flakes of debris into the meter, i prefer to leave them in place, and piggyback the new resistor, sat on top of the bobbin.)

The circuit is fairly simple, i think there may be a handwritten one on richards radios, but in any case i am quite happy to locate the fault if you want to bring it over. It sounds like a simple one to fix.

Personally,I would remove the battery pronto if it's an oldie!

Dave
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Old 18th Nov 2018, 12:58 am   #1818
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I neglected to mention the voltage shunts are in series, so a dead 25v bobbin will render the 25v,100v, 250v and 500v ranges u/s.
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Old 18th Nov 2018, 8:52 am   #1819
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Default Re: AVO Multimeter survey

Thanks Dave for the above. At first I thought it might be just a case of corroded wander plug sockets, but on removing the back cover, all the high bobbins seem to read ok, so will check out the low one next.(The day ended too quickly yesterday) As you say, it is probably quite a game to remove any of the coils, so will no doubt adopt your method. I see the later Minors had a rotary switch in line with their big brothers.
As it was my father's meter, it has sentimental value, so should be fixed. By the way, he was also local to Colchester area and was an Inspector at Astralux.
For some time he was involved in switchboard plugs for BT and I still have some cut-away ones that were made during development. From memory a complicated four contact plug.
Mike.
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Old 18th Nov 2018, 9:17 am   #1820
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Mike, from the top the bobbins should be 50k,50k,60k,30k,8kohm. The 2kohm bobbin serving the 5v range is slightly inboard- so geographically speaking they are 'one out of step' if you see what i mean. Sometimes there is a slab winding obscuring the lower bobbins, which i think is a compensatory shunt to improve the accuracy of the 5vAC range.

(My Dad was at Marconi for many years!)

Dave
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