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Components and Circuits For discussions about component types, alternatives and availability, circuit configurations and modifications etc. Discussions here should be of a general nature and not about specific sets.

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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 9:12 am   #21
lesmw0sec
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

I recall the old telephone exchange at Corfe Castle having a battery of these (Circa 1955). The local engineer (who was a family friend) gave me one. It never failed over years of operation.

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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 10:42 am   #22
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

Quote:
Originally Posted by broadgage View Post
Does anyone know of a source for new or NOS wet Leclanche cells ?

Not valuable or collectable vintage ones, but suitable for use. They are allegedly still used for railway signalling in a few places, but I can't find a supplier.
You may not realise it but I think you may have already answered your own question.

I don't know if any of the preserved railways still use them - their signalling systems, after all, are vintage - but it would be well worth asking around.

Why not start with the West Somerset Railway? Presumably, they are not far from you, so you might be able to arrange to visit one of their signalling engineers?

Even if they don't use these cells, it's a fair bet that they'll know of any other railway that does!
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 1:09 pm   #23
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
...the carbon plate, which is the negative electrode.
Is this really the case?...
Oops! Nope! The carbon IS the positive!
I think Kalee20 was thinking about the Daniell cell when he got the polarity wrong.

I think I may have an example of actual Daniell cell, although I'm not sure where it is, that's if it still exists. I've posted info with pictures of both types below taken from Abbott (c)1963.

Edit: Resolution not very good on those first two.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 1:29 pm   #24
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

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Does anyone know of a source for new or NOS wet Leclanche cells ?

Not valuable or collectable vintage ones, but suitable for use. They are allegedly still used for railway signalling in a few places, but I can't find a supplier.
As a kid I remember finding strings of these all connected together after an old isolated railway station had been demolished in Scotland. They were constructed in square zinc boxes with a cardboard outer case with a sort of black rexine type finish, a pitch sealed top with a small round tube set into it for ventilation and 'watering'. They had a wire connected to the zinc for the negative and a brass screw terminal in the middle for the positive. They worked very well until the zinc cases corroded through.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 2:30 pm   #25
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

Re post #22 I have already asked the West Somerset Railway, the signalling uses modern power supplies, though heritage in other respects.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 2:50 pm   #26
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

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a pitch sealed top with a small round tube set into it for ventilation and 'watering'.
They would be "Inert" cells. Supplied dry for long storage and activated by filling with water. I have one somewhere that I found discarded in India.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 2:53 pm   #27
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

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As a kid I remember finding strings of these all connected together after an old isolated railway station had been demolished in Scotland. They were constructed in square zinc boxes with a cardboard outer case with a sort of black rexine type finish, a pitch sealed top with a small round tube set into it for ventilation and 'watering'. They had a wire connected to the zinc for the negative and a brass screw terminal in the middle for the positive. They worked very well until the zinc cases corroded through.
These do not sound like wet Leclanche cells to me.
Two more likely possibilities, IMO are,

Large dry Leclanche cells, a special type was produced that left the factory truly dry, unlike normal dry cells that have moist contents.
This prolonged the shelf life.
To put the cell to use, a known volume of tap water was introduced via the vents. After waiting for this water to soak in, the cell then worked like any other dry cell.

Alternatively they may have been "air alkaline" cells. These use oxygen from the air as one of the active materials. In storage they are tightly sealed to exclude air. To put the cell into use, a seal is removed and air enters.
These are still commonly used today and are available in minute button cells for hearing aids, and in very large cells of hundreds or even thousands of AH capacity.
They are used to power electric fences on farms, to operate parking ticket machines, and to power tail lamps on trains.
In the cold war era they were used to power "if all else fails" lighting for fallout shelters and the like. A large air alkaline battery could power a torch bulb for several months.

Either of the above types sounds likely for signalling or similar purposes at an old railway station.
One popular brand of the water activated dry battery was "TILDAWN" 3 volt at about 100AH, consisted of 4 rectangular cells connected in two series pairs. Covered in black Rexine type material. Connection via press studs like a modern 9 volt battery.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 3:30 pm   #28
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

The OP's photo was interesting in that the porous pot has the Ever Ready logo on it - and it's the less curvy, more 'modern' logo! They were producing them into the 1960's!!

So, I did a lunchtime search - it seems that you can still buy the in India! See here.

Quote:
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I think Kalee20 was thinking about the Daniell cell when he got the polarity wrong.
He wasn't, no. He was thinking, Zn gives positive ions, Zn2+. So the zinc electrode is positive. He was being thick. He knows perfectly well the carbon rod in a dry battery is positive. He's a twit.

Quote:
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I think I may have an example of actual Daniell cell, although I'm not sure where it is, that's if it still exists. I've posted info with pictures of both types below taken from Abbott (c)1963.
Daniell cells... I read about them years ago but I never played with any. Somehow, the idea of two different electrolytes kept apart by a porous pot seems like a recipe for them eventually mixing! But I understand they were popular in telephone exchanges.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 4:01 pm   #29
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

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Daniell cells... I read about them years ago but I never played with any. Somehow, the idea of two different electrolytes kept apart by a porous pot seems like a recipe for them eventually mixing! But I understand they were popular in telephone exchanges.
I believe there were even things called 'gravity cells' where 2 electrolytes, presumably of different densities formed layers in the same container. I've never seen one, but if they were of different colours (e.g. zinc sulphate -- colourless and copper sulphate -- blue) it must have looked rather odd.

Talking of depolarisation (what the manganese dioxide does), I have seen a description of a cell with a mechanical agitator to know the hydrogen bubbles off the plate. Operated by a clockwork motor, released when the terminal voltage got too low. I am still not sure I believe it existed...


Some of the older electrical books describe how to make such cells (including the Leclanche, the dry Leclanche, Daniel, Bunsen, etc). 'Harpers Electricity Book for Boys' is one such.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 4:35 pm   #30
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it seems that you can still buy the in India! See here.
It's good to know that they can still be purchased, and interesting that they sell both Leclanché and Daniell cells, but rather ominous that you have to ask how many rupees they cost rather than stating a price. Also, I dread to think what the postage would be for international shipping.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 5:54 pm   #31
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

I have sent an email enquiry to the Indian seller of batteries. Awaiting a deluge of spam and nothing useful.

As regards the gravity cells in which two different coloured electrolytes were separated by different specific gravity, these had the merit that the extent of the remaining capacity could be estimated by simple and very quick visual inspection.
They were very popular for telegraph lines as it was believed that each telegraph line needed a dedicated battery of from 6 cells up to more than 100 cells depending on length and resistance.
A major telegraph office would have thousands of cells.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 6:51 pm   #32
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

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Daniell cells... I read about them years ago but I never played with any. Somehow, the idea of two different electrolytes kept apart by a porous pot seems like a recipe for them eventually mixing! But I understand they were popular in telephone exchanges.
What I remember is COUNTER EMF CELLS. These were alkaline cells connected in series with the main exchange battery, but the wrong way round. They could be switched in to reduce the battery voltage if necessary.

Apart from these and the usual lead acid cells, I don't remember any cells other than dry cells. That's not to say that the odd Leclanché cell wasn't found in subscriber's premises. They were usually replaced with Flag Cells.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 7:31 pm   #33
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I have sent an email enquiry to the Indian seller of batteries.
I look forward to hearing how you get on.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 7:49 pm   #34
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

Me too. I'd be up for 6V worth, Broadgage!

I used to read under the blankets when I was a naughty teenager in the mid 1979's, using a torch bulb powered by my three Leclanché cells, which I kept under the bed.

I'd like to do that again, though I'd use the cells to power white LED's these days.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 8:56 pm   #35
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I look forward to hearing how you get on.
I have received an email advising me of various unknown riches in overseas bank accounts, a small bribe being required to release this money.

Also offers to invest in an Indian factory manufacturing batteries.
Or in a new hotel.

So many splendid opportunities
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 9:35 pm   #36
60 oldjohn
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

I'm a bit disappointed, the cell may mot be as old as I had hoped. I had seen that a lot of them were used on the railways in the 1860s they looked same as mine but without the logo, I think Ever Ready in Britain was not formed until 1904. Any one know when the Ever Ready logo in post 1 was first used? and when it was changed to a more modern logo ?


John.
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Old 2nd Aug 2018, 11:59 pm   #37
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

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a pitch sealed top with a small round tube set into it for ventilation and 'watering'.
They would be "Inert" cells. Supplied dry for long storage and activated by filling with water. I have one somewhere that I found discarded in India.
Yes, I think you may well be right. I was probably only about or 10 at the time and was on holiday with relatives. I think I managed to (was only allowed to) carry four of them back to make a nice 6 volt battery for playing with my circuits. Even at that age I had read somewhere about making holes in old dry batteries and standing them in water to make them work again, so I remember it being obvious to me to inject them well with water through the holes in the tops. I probably over watered them and they rotted out and my parents got annoyed with the mess they were making and threw them out.

It's also interesting what Broadgage says, and I think they were the first of the two possibilities he mentioned. The air alkaline cells he mentions won't be these as I don't think they would have been invented/used back in the mid 60s, but as I haven't come across these before, then I may be wrong.

I've got three lead acid cells that are dry, but have the acid in a sealed compartment in the top. A 'tool' is clipped to the top that can be removed and used to puncture the acid container and allowing it to drain into the cell itself - I think I bought these from John Birkett's shop in Lincoln many years ago. I've never 'punctured' any of them, so they're ready for that 'emergency' for a 6 volt supply.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 12:15 am   #38
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

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I'm a bit disappointed, the cell may mot be as old as I had hoped. I had seen that a lot of them were used on the railways in the 1860s they looked same as mine but without the logo, I think Ever Ready in Britain was not formed until 1904. Any one know when the Ever Ready logo in post 1 was first used? and when it was changed to a more modern logo ?


John.
They're not that old, although the 'style' may not have changed over many years. I've just checked, and they were still being sold like that in the early 1980s for £4.95 each, although the glass was all clear without the black painted bit at the top by then.

I bought a 1.5 volt radio filament battery (multiple cells in parallel inside) in the mid 60s, that had the old style EverReady curly logo and different 'orange' and darker blue, but it could have been old stock. I still had this battery as late as 1999, but it was rotting by then, so got thrown out when I moved house. I would have bought this to complement my Winner 120 volt battery, which I seem to remember had the later logo with a more 'red' colour and lighter blue case - the Winner was gone well before the end of the 60s.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 7:58 am   #39
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

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I have received an email advising me of various unknown riches in overseas bank accounts, a small bribe being required to release this money.

Also offers to invest in an indian factory manufacturing batteries.
Or in a new hotel.

So many splendid opportunities
Well, I have to say it was a novel hook for a scam, especially given how limited a market the bait would tempt.
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Old 3rd Aug 2018, 8:12 am   #40
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Default Re: Ever Ready (Leclanché) Cell

I have a few Leclanché cells in various stages of completeness available FOC if anyone wants to play.

They are in the greenhose at the moment I will see if I can take a snap.

Cheers

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